Continuing Is Elvis The Best Selling Artist Of All Time?

This is a continued discussion about whether is the best selling artist of all time from an anonymous editorial posted February 1, 2005.


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364 thoughts on “Continuing Is Elvis The Best Selling Artist Of All Time?

  1. WayDown says:

    Great proofs “Simon”.

  2. rcmsrw says:

    Simon has no proofs except that RCA has continued to put out redone Elvis music. Can you figure math? If I put out 2 albums and you put out 10 and I sell 1 million and you sell 1000, who sold the most? The bottom line again, is that the 5 biggest music record keepers, and they are, RIAA, IFPA, Billboard, Soundccan, and Guinness ALL SAY THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD MUCH MORE THAN ELVIS. ALL OF THEM. GET IT SIMON? The argument is over. Don’t say everyone knows. Obviously the experts who keep track do know and THEY ALL HAVE BEATLES #1. Bobs stats are accurate, 100% fact. I have already posted European lifetime sales and again Beatles are #1 in Europe also.
    And yes, Simon more than 600,000 a year tour Liverpool for Beatle stuff. Yes, they do. And I have been to England and to say Elvis is bigger than the Beatles is a joke. A total joke. The Beatles are royalty in England.

  3. MIKE BML says:

    I still am not taking sides, however no one commented on my blog about “the origins” of their music (even though it was not the question).. lol. Hopefully it has ceased those of you who was claiming your artists as the originators of their music. I will state this, since MJ owned (in part now) the catalogs of The Beatles and some of Elvis recordings, wouldn’t he technically be the “Biggest recording seller” of all times? Chew on that for a day or two! So in other words every times the Beatles and Elvis sold those gigantic numbers, MJ profits. So if MJ (R.I.P) was here he would be smiling all the way to the bank. Then go out and spend and donate it all again>>

  4. rcmsrw says:

    Simon, pease see the article above. It says IFPA has made it clear sales wise. They have released what is considered the most accurate sales worlwide for all time. They are considered the “most accuate source”. It’s conclusion??? Beatles #1 with 400 million, MJ 2nd with 350 million and Madonna and Elvis fighting it out for 3rd. END OF STORY.

  5. Bob says:

    Hey Simon and Waydown,

    rcmsrw is right. Simon has no proofs and his only figure of 80 gold albums for Elvis from RIAA is not accurate.

    The figures from RIAA are:

    Elvis has 82 gold (500,000 sales) albums, 45 platinum (1 million sales), 24 multi platinum (2 million sales) and zero diamond (10 million sales).

    The Beatles have 45 gold (500,000 sales) albums, 39 platinum (1 million sales), 24 multi platinum (2 million sales) and 6 diamond (10 million sales) albums.

    What do these figures mean?

    They mean that Elvis has 82 albums that sold more than 500,000 (gold), of those 82 gold albums 45 sold more than 1 million (platinum), of those 45 platinum albums 24 sold more than 2 million (multi platinum) and of those 24 multi platinum albums none sold more than 10 million (diamond) giving a TOTAL of 120 million album sales in the US.

    The Beatles have 45 albums that sold more than 500,000 (gold), of those 45 gold albums 39 sold more than 1 million (platinum), and of those 39 platinum albums 24 sold more than 2 million (multi platinum), and of those 24 multi platinum albums 6 sold more than 10 million (diamond) for a TOTAL of 170 million album sales in the US.

    The Beatles have outsold Elvis in the US, Europe, the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, South America etc. I do not know a market where Elvis has outsold The Beatles.

    Please provide evidence if you have it of a market where Elvis outsold The Beatles. I do not want to read assertions and unsubstantiated claims but evidence based arguments.

  6. Simon says:

    rcmsrw, your stating that the Beatles are bigger than Elvis in England proves that you have NEVER been there.
    I’ve been there many times however, and you see Elvis everywhere, especially in London.
    Recently in England a poll was held, who was the biggest and of course Elvis was number one, who would expect something else? Only you perhaps :)

    Also, I recently saw on the BBC, that’s the national television in case you don’t know, and they asked youths on the street to name the Beatles by name, I wish you’d seen it, it was hilarious, everything popped upe, from Mick Jagger to Rod Stewart, most youths don’t have a CLUE about the Beatles. Then however, it came to Elvis, and yes they only had to mention his first name, the King has no need for further introduction of course… And every single youth interviewed knew a lot about him!
    In the same programm, rcmsrw and Bob, Paul McCartney HIMSELF mentioned that Elvis is the biggest seller in the music world. Now Bob and rcmsrw, perhaps you won’t take my word for it, perhaps you can believe one of the Beatles himself!
    Elvis is the king, most loved, most copied, most played, most sold, most talent, best looks. Live with it boys, the Beatles themselves had no problem with it, why should you :)
    Long live the king!

    pop music

  7. Simon says:

    Here are some more FACTS Bob and rcmsrw:

    Elvis in the Guinness World Record book

    Most Hit Singles On US Chart

    Elvis Presley had a record 149 hit singles on the Billboard Hot 100 between 1956 and 1996. THe King of rock ‘n’ roll took his first step towards a musical career at the age of eight, when he won $5 in a local singing contest in Tupelo, Mississippi performing the Red Folley ballad, “Old Shep”.

    Most US No. 1 Albums By A Male Solo Artist

    Elvis Presley had a record nine solo albums reach the number one spot on the US chart. They were – Elvis Presley (1956), Elvis (1956), Loving You (1957), Elvis Christmas Album (1957), GI Blues (1960), Something For Everybody (1961), Blue Hawaii (1961), Roustabout (1964), and Elvis – Aloha From Hawaii (1973).

    Most Weeks On UK Singles Chart

    Elvis Presley’s 111 hits have spent a total of 1,149 weeks in the UK singles chart since “Heartbreak Hotel” debuted on May 11, 1956. In the weeks following his death on August 16, 1977, his record sales predictably rocketed. Sales of the tragically fitting “Way Down” went way up – propelling Presley once more to the number one spot.

    Most Consecutive Weeks On UK Singles Chart

    Elvis Presley is the artist with the most consecutive weeks in the UK chart. His 13 hit singles, from “A Mess Of Blues”, in 1960, to “One More Broken Heart For Sale”, in 1963, spent an unbroken 144 weeks in the chart.

    Most Hit Albums On UK Chart

    As of February 2001, Elvis Presley had 100 hit albums in the UK chart. This is just one of the 15 records held by The King – others include “Most No.1 Singles In The UK Chart”, “Most No.1 Hit Singles By A Solo Artist”, and “Most Fan Clubs”.

    Most RIAA Certificates Held By A Single Artist

    The recording artist with the most certified titles ever is Elvis Presley with 235. This total is comprised of 132 gold, 70 platinum, and 33 multiplatinum certificates. RIAA stands for the Recording Industry Association of America.

    Most Platinum Certificates For Record Sales

    The only audited measure of record sales in the USA is certification by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). Elvis Presley holds the record for the most platinum certificates issued by the RIAA, with 70.

    Most Charted Artist

    Elvis Presley’s records spent a cumulative total of 1,155 weeks on the UK singles chart since his first hit Heartbreak Hotel released on May 11, 1956.

    Facts don’t lie, live with it boys. :)
    Cheers

  8. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Those facts you mention do not mean that Elvis has sold more records than The Beatles. You quote the RIAA but seem to ignore that according to the RIAA The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 50 million in the US.

    I could list a heap of Beatles facts but they do not reflect sales.

    So Simon, the bottom line is The Beatles have sold more than Elvis. Enjoy that fact.

    So unless you can come up with audited sales figures supporting your argument then all your claims are just unsubstantiated and lacking credibility.

  9. rcmsrw says:

    Simon, you’re not fun to argue with because you dispute facts and use invalid data and opinion as proof.
    #1. As has been stated by and SHOWN by Bob and myself, the 5 biggest trackers of sales again, I repeat, RIAA, Soundscan, IFPA, Billboard and Guinness ALL STATE THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST OF ANYBODY. PERIOD. You can’t argue it. Just because Elvis and RCa continue to put out Albums doesn’t mean their overall sales are bigger. THEY ARE NOT–PERIOD. Not one legitimate source says so.
    #2 your OPINION of Elvis being bigger than the Beatles is really a joke. I have been there. I don’t care if you’ve been there 100 times, England has created an entire industry promoting the Beatles. They currently, right now in 2010 are the biggest sellers in England. Point out your recent “POLL” about whos more popular. Everyone I looked up had the Beatles #1. Elvis wasn’t in the top 3. So, where did this “poll” come from. Most youths don’t have a clue about the Beatles? That statement shows your opinion is worthless.

  10. cathy says:

    Simon
    You are trashing a legend. If you don’t like Michael Jackson that is your right. But you do not need to say untrue things about him that has nothing to do with the discussion we are having. And for your information HE NEVER DUBBED HIMSELF ‘THE KING OF POP’ where that came from was Elisabeth Taylor who when presenting him with an award. She had said he was the King of Rock, Pop, and Soul. The fans picked up on it and gave him the title which fits him perfectly.

    He also never molested anyone he was put on trial and aquitted of all charges. He would never do anything like that. He could never hurt anyone especially a child.

    And if you want a list awards and records broken then you need to look at Michael Jackson’s records. He won at least 366 awards including being the first in history to win 8 Grammys in one year also 8 American Music Awards in the same year 1984. He has been inducted into the Guennis Book of World Records 8 times. Also he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame twice. Once as a member of the Jackson 5 and once as a solo artist. He has the 3 biggest selling tours in History Bad Tour which broke the record then the Dangerous tour which broke that record then his last tour broke that record the History tour. And the This Is It tour that was to be held in the o2 Arena in London sold out in the first 4 hours when the tickets came on sale. The documentary film This Is It is the biggest selling film of its kind in history. He also won many awards for his humanitarian efforts. Donating all of the money he got from the Victory to charity, He gave all the proceeds from the sales of the single ‘Man In The Mirror, to charity. He also did the same with the song ‘Heal The World’ along with making a charity organization with the same name. He holds the record for the most charities supported by a pop artist.
    He is still breaking records after his passing by winning 4 American Music Awards and in doing so has won more American Music Awards within a recording artist’s career. He also just recently broke another record.

    Michael Jackson estate in record deal worth up to $250 mln
    AP, Mar 16, 2010 2:00 am PDT

    Even in death, Michael Jackson is breaking new records.

    The King of Pop’s estate has signed the biggest recording deal in history: a $200 million guaranteed contract with Sony Music Entertainment for 10 projects over seven years.

    Future projects may also include a video game, a DVD compilation of videos and a rerelease of “Off the Wall,” Jackson’s fifth studio album, which first came out in 1979, accompanied by some unreleased material. Before his sudden death in June at age 50, the pop star had wanted to reissue the album, people familiar with the deal said.

    The record-breaking contract through 2017 could be worth up to $250 million if certain conditions are met. One of the albums will be of never-before-released Jackson recordings that will come out in November.

    One of the projects already counted in the contract was the two-disc album that accompanied “This Is It,” the film based on footage of concert rehearsals for what was to have been Jackson’s comeback at London’s O2 arena.

    Including the more than 5 million copies of that special release, Jackson has sold some 31 million albums since his death, about two-thirds of them outside the United States.

    “During his life, Michael’s contracts set the standard for the industry,” said John Branca, the co-administrator of the Jackson estate, in a statement prepared for release Tuesday. “By all objective criteria, this agreement with Sony Music demonstrates the lasting power of Michael’s music by exceeding all previous industry benchmarks.”

    Rob Stringer, chairman of Sony Music’s Columbia Epic Label Group, said in prepared remarks, “We’re dedicated to protecting this icon’s legacy and we’re thrilled that we can continue to bring his music to the world for the foreseeable future.”

    The landmark deal is worth more than all other benchmarks, such as the all-encompassing rights deals that concert promoter and ticket-seller Live Nation Entertainment Inc. had previously signed with Madonna at $120 million and Jay-Z for $150 million.

    Jackson’s deal is even more remarkable because it does not include royalties from merchandise.

    The contract shows the value of legacy artists. It also comes at a time of decline for the music industry, with sales down about half from their peak in 2000 mainly due to free file-swapping.

    Distribution rights for “This Is It” were sold to Sony Pictures, another unit of Sony Corp., for $60 million and the movie went on to gross $252 million worldwide, the most of any concert film ever.

    Revenue from that, song sales and merchandising agreements brought into the estate revenues of about $100 million, lawyers for the estate’s administrators told a Los Angeles Superior Court judge in December, when they sought a percentage as an administration fee.

    The Walt Disney Co. even brought back the 17-minute Jackson movie “Captain EO” to its Disneyland theme park in Anaheim last month. The original began running at the park in 1986 but was pulled in 1997.

    Jackson’s most lasting and valuable asset is the 50 percent stake in Sony/ATV Music Publishing, a company that owns publishing rights to music by The Beatles and numerous other artists, including Elvis Presley and Bob Dylan. Split with Sony Music, the copyright catalog itself is estimated to be worth $2 billion.

    I can spout out more records he broke as well as more awards he won. But you are to wound up in the fact that in your limited thinking that Elvis is the best of all time. Everyone on this forum has given what was due to each artist the Beatles, Elvis and Michael Jackson. Please be more respectful of people’s opinions. I believe Michael Jackson is the best in my eyes but I also acknowledge that the Beatles and even Elvis were huge stars in their own right.

  11. Simon says:

    rcmsrw and Bob, I will stop here debating who is the biggest seller of all times, Every sane person who can count to 10 knows it’s Elvis. I am sorry it gets to you guys, but those are the facts. Also Bob, your emailing me personally doesn’t help either. You state to me that you know Elvis has sold more than the Beatles, but you can’t stand that fact. Then here in public you say the Beatles have sold more. This is misleading the general public who might think you are right, while you are wrong (and admitted this to me). I’ll have no part in these childish actions.
    For all concerned, ELVIS is the biggest seller and will most probably remain that forever. I can’t see anyone touching his sales and certainly not the Beatles and MJ :)
    Have a happy! Long live the king, Elvis, the artist with most sales!

  12. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    You have just exposed yourself as someone who does not deal in the truth. I have not emailed you, – if you have received an email then it is not from me. How would I obtain your email address? I will easily be able to prove it did not come from me.

    Simon, you are impugning my integrity and I do not take kindly to that. Please feel free to publish my email address – because the email you received (if you did actually receive one) is not from me. The moderator will be able to confirm that. As my email address has my surname in it please feel free to state my surname. I bet you can’t.

    Simon, I hope you are aware that people can be traced on blogs and consequently sued for defamation. You are in that terrain now. So Simon if you have any integrity you will either retract what you said about me emailing you or state my surname and/or email address. A non reply will expose you as an untruthful person.

    Simon, your integrity and credibilty are at stake.

    rcmsrw is correct when she says you dispute facts and use invalid data and opinion as proof.

    All your facts show is that Elvis has been very successful but there is no mention of sales.

    As has been demonstrated many times on this site all independent audited sales figures show The Beatles as being the biggest selling artists of all time.

    So Simon it is time to put up or be exposed as a fraud. I am waiting.

    If you do not reply then that will taken as an acknowledgement that you are a fraud.

    So Simon please provide the evidence (my surname/email address) you supposedly have or be exposed as a fraud.

  13. Juraj says:

    Reading these arguments is really funny. THere is no any evidence that Elvis outsold the Beatles. Every single evidence ever publised is saying the best selling artisit is the Beatles. I know it is difficult for the Elvis fans to admit this but this is the way it is. The end of discussion.

    I am coming from the Central Europe. MOst of the people do not know who Elvis was while the Beatles are still heroes here. I think Beatles outsold Elvis here 100 times.

    You cannot compare only USA and UK.

  14. WayDown says:

    “Juraj”, you’re a comic :o)

    Then Elvis is even not known in Central Europe ? :o)

    Come on, try an other joke, this one was silly !

  15. rcmsrw says:

    Cathy, good news and bad news for your guy MJ. Good news: if you read the article above that’s titled IFPI thankfully makes it clear in sales, the article says the IFPI findings which are and I quote “considered the most accurate” have Beatles #1 and guess what MJ #2 in total overall lifetime sales with Madonna and Elvis fighting it out for 3rd place. More good news is the Sony deal. That’s pretty big. But the bad news is as you state MJ has sold 31 million since his death. It’s probably less than that but it is big. But the bad news is he was selling nothing before his death. He had’nt even sold 1/2 million in America in 2009 before he died, YOU CAN LOOK IT UP, So, he was done really. Let’s face it. His death and all the promotions since his death have sky rocketed his sales, but after this initial big boost, he’ll probably drop off again. Just wanted to point that out.

  16. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    Juraj is correct when he says there is no evidence that Elvis outsold The Beatles. All the evidence indicates The Beatles outsold Elvis.

    Why don’t you provide some evidence showing Elvis outsold The Beatles? By evidence I mean audited sales figures.

  17. WayDown says:

    My friend Bob, I was just putting a comment about our friend Juraz who said “Elvis is not known in Central Europe”. That was the biggest joke that I have ever heard in my life.

    I wasn’t talking about sales. Which I repeat again, huge quantities of the King’s sales are not even captured by RIAA and still he’s second to the Beatles. To know who’s the winner, all the sales (and not only US) must be counted and that’s almost impossible for Elvis, and for example much more more more difficult for a guy like F Sinatra. The King’s best selling period was not counted (because too old) and many many other later records sold with other compagnies (not RCA) which are not counted too, and off corse all the sales under 500000 are counted as 0 and Elvis loses in that game because he has a lot.

    Anyway, oficially we can never know the reality even if I’m convinced that the King is the best selling artist. As I told you when I was teen in Asia in the 80’s, I didn’t even know what Beatles was. I’ll go to hell if I lie, but Elvis was known as the King and he was adulated. Elvis was much worlwide than any other artist.

  18. rcmsrw says:

    Waydown, you’re right that there is some controversy on Elvis actual sales, but I again refer to the huge press conference that RIAA, RCA and BMG held together a couple of years ago. RIAA and BMG did what they consider a thorough audit of Elvis’ sales. They came up with new numbers and gave him larger sales #s and more gold records, etc. They announced their findings with the cooperation of RCA, who blessed the findings. It still leaves him millions behind Beatles. I would think if RCA is ok with these findings, the controversy is over.

  19. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    I just commented on what juraj had to say about there being no evidence that Elvis outsold The Beatles. As I don’t live in Central Europe I am unable to comment on what he said about that

    I have consistently said that on independent audited sales The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time and have provided credible sources supporting that contention..

  20. cathy says:

    rcmsrw
    Thank you for bringing that article to my attention. The one thing that you stated I agree with. Is his sales went up after his passing. It did. But I do not think that his sales will decline as time goes on. Yes sales will even out but I expect sales will stay strong for along time. Just as Elvis and the Beatles have. They all have legacies that will live on through their music.
    Now as for him not selling many records in the recent years I blame Sony for that fact most specifically Tommy Matola. He didn’t like black artists and would not promote Michael’s last album ‘Invincible’ like Sony had done with his previous records. If no one knows it is out there no one is going to look for it and buy it. True? This album had very little promotion and only one real music video. Michael had said that he had planned on doing around 8 videos for the album which never happened. You have to admit that his music videos is what helped promote his albums. When a new Michael Jackson video came out people took notice.
    Heck a lot of people after his passing became fans after they heard his music and realized how talented he is. That may seem a bit late but how many people who are from another generation love Elvis or the Beatles but were not around when they were alive or together. I believe that each generation will discover these artists and become fans.

  21. Simon says:

    Beatles, MJ, Madonna bigger sellers than Elvis??
    There sure are some comedians around here. Elvis has sold more records/CD’s than all those artists combined. I am not saying they weren’t any good, but Elvis has simply sold most records, I know it’s hard especially for Beatles fans to acknowledge this in public (he Bob?)
    but those are the facts. Elvis will never be outsold, live with it :) There can only be one king, and as John Lennon and Paul said themselves, Elvis is the greatest. Not only in talent, good looks, but yes also in sales. As if any sane person ever doubted that!!!

  22. WayDown says:

    Yes Simon, there are lot of comics here :o) Madonna is the best selling artist all time :o))

  23. rcmsrw says:

    Simon, again, and for the fifth time. You have no proof in what you say. The proof, from the people who actually count the sales, again, RIAA, Soundscan, Billboard, IFPA and Guinness ALL SAY THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD MORE. So, what do you base your notes on? All the proof is against you yet you say sane people know? That makes no sense again as the people who do the counting say no Simon, the Beatles have sold the most. Please quit telling us your opinion and please give us facts. YOU CAN’T BECAUSE THE FACTS SAYS BEATLES.

  24. Simon says:

    Comments by:

    Michael L. Omansky
    Senior Vice President Marketing
    The RCA Records Label
    1540 Broadway
    Times Square
    New York 10036
    USA.

    RIAA certifications only measure levels of sales of albums, not total sales. Also, many Elvis albums do not qualify by RIAA certification rules to be certified. For example, we found one album sold about 25 years ago that did about 950,000 units, and proved the sales. However, the list price was $2.98; the minimum RIAA level to qualify is $3.00. Thus, those sales don’t “count” for RIAA purposes; as far as we’re concerned, they sold and do so in real life. Elvis has many more albums, as you note, than other musicians. Many titles that have been certified have units sold well beyond their levels. These are real sales, which again are distinct from what is certified and what is not.

    Q. Is RCA still committed to proving that Elvis is indeed “The Greatest Record Seller of All Time?

    A. Elvis is the largest seller of records of all time; we have nothing to prove. Nonetheless, we are committed to making sure that he is properly certified in the future, as well as continuing to increase his sales and maintain his importance on our roster.

    Prior to the Project (Artist of the Century) commencing, and indeed since 1984 in Billboard Magazine, RCA have been claiming that Elvis’ Global Record Sales have been an estimated 1 Billion (60% of sales being in the USA and 40% in the rest of the World). The Official Project Booklet states, and I quote, “Unequivocally, Elvis Aaron Presley is the biggest-selling artist in the history of popular music. No contest. Bigger than the Beatles; bigger than Sinatra; bigger than Michael Jackson; bigger than the Spice Girls; bigger than the flavour of the month – much bigger”

    The Beatles were big rcmsrw for about 4 years (1963-1967)but compared to Elvis, the biggest seller of ALL times, they are very, very small potatoes.
    Now go listen to your Beatles CD’s and stop whining, there can only be one King and yes everybody says and knows it’s Elvis. Bu-bye

  25. rcmsrw says:

    Simon, again nice quote from RCA. But here are the facts:
    Fact#1 Not just RIAA but Billboard, IFPA and Soundscan all not only dispute this RCA spokesman but they certify with sales results that the Beatles have sold more than Elvis. All 4 of them. Your claim is some RCA exec, not sales figures from the people who collect the sales figures.
    Fact#2 Guinees book of Records has researched sales and have concluded, based on the aformentioned sales figues that the beatles are the largest sellers in history, no matter what some agent of RCA says.
    Fact#3. Three years ago RIAA and BMG did an extensive research of RCAs disputes and they did change his numbers, leaving him still millions behind Beatles and RCA AGREED WITH THE NUMBERS. YOU CAN LOOK IT UP. When RIAA and BMG presented their findings RCA exec said and I quote, WE’RE PROUD THIS PROVES ELVIS IS THE BIGGEST SELLING SOLO ARTIST EVER. ( HE SAID SOLO BECAUSE THE NUMBERS WERE STILL VERY MUCH LESS THAN BEATLES)
    Fact#4. The Beatles are currently the #1 selling group in 20 countries around the world, CURRENTLY IN 2010. Elvis is under 20th.
    Fact#5 Since 1989-2009, the Beatles sold the 2nd most music on earth. Elvis was 17th. So, who’s more popular today.
    Quit quoting some RCA exec and look at the facts provided by the people who do it for a living. Again, Billboard doesn’t dispute RIAA who disputes Soundscan, who disputes IFPA-THEY ALL ARE IN AGREEMENT THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. So, this RCA exec doesn’t mean a thing.
    Two years ago the IFPA awarded Ringo who represented the Beatles, with the ditinction that and I quote, THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST RECORDS IN HISTORY.
    So, no everybody doesn’t say and know Elvis is king, in fact MOST PEOPLE DON’T SAY IT. Bye Bye

  26. Simon says:

    I am glad you agree with me then that Elvis is indeed the biggest seller of all times. Go into ANY record shop all over the world (I travel a lot) and see how few Beatles CD’s (if any) they stock and how MANY of Elvis’. Almost his complete body of work is still available. Shops only stock what sells, and Elvis sells massively, his DVD’s are constantly in the Top 10. Where are the Beatles movies represented in these lists?? Nowhere.
    The Beatles appeal nowadays only to some purists, hippies who refuse to grow up. Elvis is being bought by young and old alike, he will always be the greatest.
    Don’t you just love it. Long live the king, ELVIS.

  27. cathy says:

    Simon
    Seems that you don’t read so well. Here are the facts again.

    Thankfully IFPI Has Made It Clear ‘Sales-wise’

    The ongoing claims & counter-claims made by fans have really made things confusing thankfully no less than the IFPI has set the record/s straight. As of November 2005, IFPI has released its official updated figures for the ‘World’s Biggest Selling Artists’ which is the cumulative total of both singles & albums. This list is not absolute but it is the most accurate list of global coverage. According to the list The Beatles (400 million+) & Michael Jackson (350 million+) are comfortably ahead of the pack with Elvis Presley (300 million+) & Madonna (295 million+) slugging it out for the 3rd position.
    At least now the titles are clear:
    Madonna is the ‘Biggest Selling Female Artist In History’
    Michael Jackson is the ‘Biggest Selling Male Artist In History’
    The Beatles is the ‘The Biggest Selling Act & Group In History’
    Read it and weep!!!!
    Also did you hear about the big record deal that Sony struck with Michael Jackson’s estate. It is a 7 year contract making 10 projects worth up to 250mil guaranteed 200mil.
    So it seems that someone believes Michael Jackson can still sell records. Sony is betting 200mil on it. This is the biggest record deal in history and it is all that more special when you take into consideration how the music industry is going downhill in terms of sales.

  28. cathy says:

    Could Michael Jackson break the music industry’s megadeal jinx?
    nytimes.com/2010/03/22/business/media/22jackson.html

  29. popdirt says:

    please no copying and pasting of articles because of copyright, just post the link.

  30. cathy says:

    ok sorry thought you couldn’t post urls.

  31. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again you provide no evidence, just some information from RCA who are not an independent organisation, but have a vested interest in saying Elvis is the biggest selling artist – interestingly they provide no proof.

    How about some evidence? No evidence no credibility. I am still waiting. RIAA and Soundscan figures show The Beatles way ahead of Elvis.

    RIAA – The Beatles 170 million, Elvis 120 million
    Soundscan (1991-2009) – The Beatles 60 million, Elvis 32 million.

    The IFPI also have The Beatles as the biggest selling artists of all time.

    So Simon how about some independently audited sales figures to support your contentions.

    I don not want to hear anymore “We all know”, “Everyone knows”, “Any sane person knows”. That is just drivel and does nothing for your credibility.

    Simon, I do not know where you live but in the last 6 months The Beatles remasters have sold about 15 million copies worldwide whereas Elvis 75 sold only about 1 million. So your statement that The Beatles no longer sell is just rubbish. Of course everythig you say is unsubstantiated – unsubstantiated rubbish.

    So put up or shut up, Simon.

  32. WayDown says:

    Simon, you try to explain the truth to people who don’t want to see. The truth hurts sometimes. You are giving proofs that a huge quantity of the King’s sales are not even captured by RIAA and they don’t want to admit. These same people believe that MJ’s sales jumped from 250 million to 750 million from 2006 to 2009 ! You are trying to give proofs to poor minded people. Give up! rcmsrw is saying that Beatles were the best selling artists in more than 20 countries and in Asia we didn’t even know what a Beatle was (may be a new mark of chocolate!). Elvis is the most worldwide artist all time, and this whitout any medias help or the internet which did not exist at that time.

    As you mentionned, RIAA counts ONLY album sales with many many strange counting rules. One day I’m sure they will count ALL the stuff sold by the most important artists and our friends on this forum will have a heart attack. I’m 100% sure that the King is over 2 billion. I’m sure because this guy was the King even in the smallest villages on the smallest countries on our planet.

    An advice Simon, give up ! You can give all the proofs you want they will still think that Madonna sold as much as the King. Can you imagine this? How a person should be blind to believe this ! You are trying to convince these kind of people :o)

    Long live the King.

  33. Simon says:

    Cathy I really am sorry for your loss, it is obvious you are in a state of shock over the death of your idol and I sympathize for you. But you have to get back in reality one way or another and to say that Michael is the biggest selling male act must be from the state you are still in. ANY sane person knows Elvis has sold most records, or maybe you are just a child under 5 or so.
    Michael was 400 million in debts so that new deal still doesn’t put him in the black figures. And of course he will sell some records after his death, but sales are already dropping, his new DVD didn’t even get into the top 10 of sales, people are already losing interest in him, it’s not like he is ELVIS PRESLEY, in whom interest STILL is huge 32 years after his death. It’s really fascinating how many people think their flavour of the month will outsell the King. No one has, no one ever will. All figures point into one direction only: Elvis.
    I am very sorry but you have to face facts, Elvis is and always will be the biggest. As for Michael….only a handful of fans will remember him in say 10 years.
    I wish you a speedy recovery!

  34. rcmsrw says:

    waydown, you were rational at one time now you’ve lost it. I don’t give my opinions when it comes to facts on sales. You yourself on this thread have said many times the proof is clear, the Beatles have sold the most. But now you quote Simons words as proof but as has been pointed out he offers no proof. he says everyone knows, we all know., etc. Pure rubbish.
    As for the quotes Cathi used about Madonna, again it isn’t her opinion, this was released by the IFPA. This organization presented this. This isn’t our opinion. The IFPA, along with RIAA, Soundscan and Billboard ALL GIVE FIGURES THAT SHOW BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST, and you know it waydown.
    Again I’m not offering opinion when I say Beatles are the current leading sellers world wide. Look it up.
    Simon should leave this thread because he offers no proof, just opinion, and you waydown have also lost it. You were quoting factual information before, now you give your opinion as fact. Rubbish.
    You continually give this RIAA miscounting thing. What they only miscount Elvis?
    Anyway that has been addressed with facts in two ways.
    Fact#1. Take RIAA out of the equasion to get your miscounting trash out of the conversation. Soundscan, IFPA, Billboard, and Guinness ALL HAVE BEATLES AS #1.
    Fact#2. And you can look this up although you refuse to, the RIAA and BMG did an audit to address RCAs concerns and they came up with new numbers. These numbers are still way below the Beatles. And as has been stated, again look it up, RCA AGREED WITH THESE FINDINGS. So, please quit the RIAA rubbish about miscounting.
    Please if you’re going to comment use facts. We can argue about quality, influence and all that, but the facts on who the biggest seller of all time is are overwhelmingly in favor of the Beatles/

  35. rcmsrw says:

    No, Waydown, I’m wrong. What you said was “take your 4 sources and declare victory” as if this is wrong to do.
    The 4 worldwide organizations that count record sales ALL SAY THE BEATLES ARE #1.
    So, the argument is over. These are the facts, not opinions. THEY ALL AGREE BEATLES ARE #1. Not half of them, not 3 out of 4 ALL OF THEM.
    Why are you still arguing? Any argument is pure opinion against the facts.
    End of story.

  36. WayDown says:

    rcmsrw, I’m always rational and still telling you that RIAA placed Elvis after the Beatles. Now you can be more intelligent and try to understand RIAA’s counting methods, except if you don’t want to discover bad news about the Beatles for whom I have a big respect. If you do little efforts you will understand for once that the King’s sales were butchered by RIAA, I’m not telling you virtual things, if you are more than 15 years old, you can check it up and admit that millions of Elvis’s sales were not captured by RIAA for several reasons (too old, under limit, other labels, price limitation, singles,…).

    As far as RIAA didn’t change it’s counting methods to count ALL the artist’s sales and not by putting a filter in input, you can be happy with the actual results, otherwise a heart attack is possible :o)

    Don’t missunderstand me, I adore and respect the Beatles music. I discovered them when I arrived in France because they were not known in my country in Asia.

  37. Simon says:

    Sure the Beatles were good, they wrote excellent songs. They didn’t do much on stage but shake their heads, but songwriters they were, but of course ALL the statistics point into only ONE biggest seller of all time, Elvis Presley, he is still the number one all over this world. And no Beatles, Garth Brooks, Whacko Jacko or anyone can touch him. THOSE are the facts, live with it rcmsrw :)
    End of this discussion. Elvis was, is and always will be the biggest seller of all time. Long live the real and only king op pop music, ELVIS.
    Cheers.

  38. Simon says:

    Waydown, you are SO right, it’s like throwing pearls to swines, but anytime I read an untruth about someone else having sold more records than the king, I HAVE to react. The man indeed sold records in each and every village all over this globe, ever since 1956. It’s Now Or Never
    single alone sold over 25 million copies as you stated before. He is the best known man in the world, apart from Jesus, even in African villages they have posters and records of the man for crying out loud. He was is and always be the biggest, I just don’t understand why some people contradict FACTS, they want their idol to be the biggest, while they KNOW Elvis was is and always will be the biggest. Someone even e-mailed me he knew that Elvis sold the most but still here in public he says it’s the Beatles! Some people……
    But every sane person knows very well it’s Elvis. And don’t you just love it. The biggest star of the 20th century sold the most records, it’s as simple and logical as that. Without Elvis, there wouldn’t have been a Beatles, Lennon was so right! :)
    Cheers.

  39. Simon says:

    Bob, if the Beatles sell so well, why are there almost NO CD’s of them in any bloody record shop? I’ll tell you why, because they don’t SELL. Shop keepers only use their precious space for CD’s and DVD’s that sell. And Elvis is omnipresent in every shop I visit. That must tell you something, but hey, you live in ignorance and I don’t want to burst your bubble, you go on saying here in public the Beatles sold more than the king. Maybe some people heavily medicated with Haldol will believe you, any SANE person knows you’re full of sh**.
    Bu-bye and by the way stop e-mailing me.

  40. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    More unsubstantiated statements and again you do not provide any evidence. Your argument techniques are puerile. All you say is “everyone knows”, “we all know”, “any sane person knows”. How about some sales figures supporting your claims?

    Here are some sales figures for you to contemplate.

    Album Sales figures for the last decade in the US:

    The Beatles 30,182,000
    Elvis Presley 16,486,000

    Those figures are from Soundscan.

    So, in the US The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 13,696,000 in the last 10 years which exposes your ridiculous statement that The Beatles don’t sell.

    The Beatles have sold more than 60 million albums in the US since Soundscan began in 1991 compared to 32 million for Elvis. Source Soundscan.

    According to the RIAA The Beatles have sold 170 million albums in the US compared to 120 million for Elvis.

    The Beatles 1 album was the biggest selling album in the US in the last decade selling 11.5 million copies compared to 4.5 million copies for Elvis’ 30 #1’s. Source: Soundscan

    You live in a dream world Simon. Every record shop I walk into there are heaps of Beatles CDs on sale.

    Simon, you have no evidence and no credibility.

    Enjoy your delusional world!

  41. Simon says:

    Don’t be so silly Bob, you and everyone knows Elvis has outsold every other group, solo artist. He has sold more records/cd’s than the Beatles, Michael Jackson and Madonna combined! Don’t get me wrong the Beatles were a nice band and sold a lot of records but alas they are not in Elvis’ league, he was is and remains the king and you can come up with fabricated figures all you want. You and I and everyone know no-one can touch him. And don’t be mad about it Bob, they are second after Elvis, I mean that ain’t too bad, there can only be one king, the king of talent, and the king of record sales. Just give up your silly notions and you’ll be much happier.
    Long live the king, Elvis Bob! :)
    All the best.

  42. Simon says:

    To rcmsrw and Bob,

    Directly from your favorite RIAA. Read it and weep.
    Ciao boys.
    END of discussion :)

    Elvis Presley: The King of Gold? & Platinum? Awards
    RIAA Certifies 40 Presley Titles; All on RCA Records
    Washington, DC – The King of Rock ‘N Roll once again raises the stakes as the recording artist with the most Gold® and Platinum® honors in music history. The Recording Industry Association of America, in conjunction with RCA Records, announced today that Elvis Presley has been awarded 40 album and single certifications, strengthening his lead as the top certified artist of all time. Presley now has the most Gold® and Platinum® albums of any artist as well as the most Gold®, Platinum® and Multi-Platinum™ singles.

    Presley’s tally of Gold® albums now stands at 80, which includes full-length albums, box set and EP titles. A total of 43 of his albums are Platinum® and 19 are at Multi-Platinum™ levels. The closest contender to Presley has half the number of Gold® albums — Barbra Streisand has 40. Presley’s closest rival in the number of Platinum® albums is the Beatles with 33.

    “Elvis Presley is literally the all-time mover and shaker in rock and roll history,” commented Hilary Rosen, RIAA President and CEO. “The RIAA is honored to have played a part in commemorating the extraordinary sales success of Presley’s entire career through our Gold® and Platinum® award program.”

    The certifications this month are mostly upgrades to Presley’s previous award levels, though there are also 18 newly certified album titles. The RIAA and RCA Records first presented the Presley estate with 110 Gold® and Platinum® records in 1992 during a landmark event marking the 15th anniversary of Presley’s death.

    Today’s announcement comes as RCA Records is releasing an Elvis Presley retrospective, “Artist Of The Century.” The comprehensive three-CD set traces Presley’s career from his first Sun sessions to his 1970’s hits.

    Presley’s 1956 classic “Hound Dog/Don’t Be Cruel” becomes one of the top certified singles of all time with sales of four million. It is the only single released prior to “We Are The World” in 1985 to reach quadruple-Platinum® status.

    Presley’s “Amazing Grace–His Greatest Sacred Performances” is certified double-platinum, matching the sales of his 1967 album, “How Great Thou Art.” Presley is the only artist with two Multi-Platinum™ gospel or inspirational albums.

    Elvis Presley’s entire certified catalog of Gold®, Platinum® and Multi-Platinum™ may be found on the RIAA website at riaa.com. All certifications are calculated by the accounting firm of Gelfand, Rennert & Feldman.

    The RIAA is the official certification agency of Gold® and Platinum® recordings. RIAA awards are based on manufacturers’ unit shipments and dollar value, net after returns. Gold® is awarded at 500,000 units; Platinum® at one million and Multi-Platinum™ at two million or more units.

    #####

    The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) is the trade organization that supports and promotes the creative and financial vitality of the major music companies. Its members are the music labels that comprise the most vibrant record industry in the world. RIAA® members create, manufacture and/or distribute approximately 85% of all legitimate recorded music produced and sold in the United States.

    In support of this mission, the RIAA works to protect the intellectual property and First Amendment rights of artists and music labels; conduct consumer, industry and technical research; and monitor and review state and federal laws, regulations and policies. The RIAA® also certifies Gold®, Platinum®, Multi-Platinum™ and Diamond sales awards as well as Los Premios De Oro y Platino™, an award celebrating Latin music sales.

    Contact:
    Jonathan Lamy
    Cara Duckworth
    Liz Kennedy
    202/775-0101

  43. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again you are rehashing old news which is now out of date and does not mention any sales figures. So what if Elvis has 80 Gold albums (it is now 82 but accuracy is not your strong point). According to your source for that figure, the RIAA, The Beatles have sold 170 million albums in the US to 120 million for Elvis.

    So Simon, you have just provided evidence that The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. Thanks for that!

    On all independent audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. Sources : RIAA, Soundscan, Billboard and IFPI.

  44. cathy says:

    Simon
    I have had it with you and your crap. You can live in your dream world all you like. Yes Elvis sold a lot of records but Michael is ahead of him according to IFPI. I can come up with all kinds of figures about sales, awards and such. But you won’t listen to it so why should I waste my time on you.
    I will tell you why because I do not take kindly to your comments about me and others son this forum. I am 40 years old not 5

  45. cathy says:

    Simon
    I have had it with you and your crap. You can live in your dream world all you like. Yes Elvis sold a lot of records but Michael Jackson is ahead of him according to IFPI. I can come up with all kinds of figures about sales, awards and such. But you won’t listen to it so why should I waste my time on you?
    I will tell you why because I do not take kindly to your comments about me and others on this forum. I am 40 years old not 5 years old. It seems you are getting more and more desperate to prove a point that cannot be proven by attacking people that do not agree with you.
    Elvis was a good singer the King of Rock and Roll. But face it the Beatles have sold more than Elvis just live with it. I have. I may not like it but it is the truth.
    And as for not selling many DVDs with ‘This Is It’ you need to do more research before you say things like that. It was the biggest selling DVD in the US last month selling 1.2m units a record for a music dvd. In Japan alone on the first day it came out it sold over 210,000 copies.
    The film in theaters was the best selling documentary of all time. It made $260.8 million globally, almost 75% of which came from outside the United States, according to Box Office Mojo making it the highest grossing documentary or concert movie of all time.
    I have respect for the people on this forum who listen and acknowledge others opinions and the facts they bring to the table. But all you seem to do is believe what you want to believe and not stop and actually read what others have said. As I have said yes Elvis was the King of Rock and Roll but Michael Jackson was the King of Pop and the Beatles is what made the sixties. They are all great artists in their own right. All have contributed to the music industry and to pop culture as a whole. Each have a fan base who are very loyal to their particular artist. You believe Elvis is the best. I believe Michael Jackson is the best and rcmsrw believes the Beatles is the best. As for sales yes the Beatles are the best selling group of all time. That is a fact but Michael Jackson is the best selling male artist of all time and that is a fact.
    And even IF Elvis had sold more than Michael and he was third on the totem pole you got to admit that would still be an incredible feat seeing that Michael only had about 9 albums out as an adult. Meaning he had less material out then Elvis and was around less time then Elvis but still sold that many records. But as you like to say ‘we all know’ that the Beatles are the biggest selling group of all time and Michael Jackson is the biggest selling male artist of all time.
    So go back to your Elvis shrine and leave us all alone.

  46. WayDown says:

    Bob, please think before talking. Your greatest source RIAA put Frank Sinatra on position 69 with only 27 million albums sold. Even RIAA admitted that this result was bull! Even the most stupid person on this planet knows that Sinatra sold several hundred millions. Bing Crosby who must be in the top 5 is not even on the RIAA’s list! Billy Joel is in the 6th position !!! Better than our Peter Pan ! Even if I don’t like MJ’s music I’m enough cultured to know that the list can’t be true! Once again, RIAA counts only album sales with strange kind of counting methods which can help some artists and butcher others (specially the old ones). God this is not complicated to understand! They have put 120 million for the King! Only with his singles Elvis is up to that number! Please think before writing something!

    Meditate on this. Sinatra position 69 with 27 million and Bing Crosby even not on that list. Just for your culture, Crosby is up to 60 million with only 2 singles “White Christmas” & “Silent Night”.

    Don’t be puppets and use your brains !

  47. Simon says:

    Very good points Bob, even Bing Crosby sold more than Whacko Jacko. And Cathy you go back to your MJ shrine, do you put a fake nose on like MJ had when you sit there?

    If you REALLY think MJ outsold Elvis than you are laughable. He sure sold millions of records, but Elvis’ record can NEVER be broken, and certainly not by MJ. Do you know how many records he was selling when he died? It was a joke. And now he is selling more but that is already dying out. In a couple of years he’s forgotten and he has sold 350 million records TOP. And that is quite a feat isn’t it! I mean that’s a lot of recors. He has sold one fifth approximately of what Elvis has sold. Elvis has sold over 1.5 billion. And of course as anyone knows MJ will never get to that. And you know what, Elvis was still selling more records at the time of MJ’s death :) Eat your heart out baby.
    Cheers.

  48. Simon says:

    Just one more point Cathy, I am not desperate, I have all the statistics and figures behind me, Elvis sold the most. It’s only you, Bob and rcmsrw who don’t believe that fact :) I see no-one else here questioning whether Elvis is the king. Every sane person knows he sold most records. A nice anecdote for you Cathy, when Lisa Marie was so stupid to marry that child molester, she took him to the holy grounds of Graceland and showed MJ Elvis’ stage attire. Michael started running around like a girl (as we all know him) and screaming at the top of his lungs: ‘Oh my god, the King’s clothes!’ So you see even your own idol knew who the true king was.
    Have a nice day.

  49. cathy says:

    Simon
    This forum is about sales about artists careers not their personal life. I am so glad that you seem to be where all these supposed things have happened. Did you see all these happenings with your own eyes? I do not believe that you did. I see you still have not read what is right in front of you. But it is alright we all know you are ‘special’.
    I do not attack Elvis with his many scandals and there are many. So don’t attack Michael Jackson with untrue things. Have some respect. I have respect for Elvis that is what separates you from me.
    Michael Jackson did a lot for the music industry then Elvis ever did. All Elvis did was swing his hips. Sing songs that people wrote for him and look good. He brought Rock and Roll to the forefront of the music industry only because he was white. There was many other artists who were black who were doing the same type of music and moves long before Elvis but they were ignored because they were black. Elvis rode their coattails to fame. If there were no Jackie Wilson or James Brown their would be no Elvis.
    As for Michael going all bananas about Elvis that is a bunch of bullsh**. He said himself that Elvis was never an influence on him. James Brown, Fred Astaire, Jackie Wilson, Sammy Davis Jr, and other song and dance men were Michael’s inspirations. Michael was one of the last true entertainers. He sang and danced at the same time. He never lip synced like many artist do today. He has been donned the best live entertainer within this lifetime. He knew how to draw people into his world. How to give love and magic in a live show. To work them up in a frenzy and deliver the magic they all knew he could. He brought the audience into the show. At a live show you were mesmerized by the show he put on. His singing his dancing the way he made you feel the emotion he put behind a song.
    He did so much more than Elvis. He wrote, composed many of his own songs. He was a director and producer, a dancer, a singer. He was even an actor. I am not saying he was the best actor in the world but he was certainly better than Elvis. He has also helped so many with his humanitarian efforts. He supported over 30 charities. He is an icon just as Elvis and the Beatles are. You may not want to believe it but it is true. Elvis will still sell just as the Beatles and Michael Jackson will sell they are all much better then the crap that is out there today. Also remember Michael Jackson has the biggest selling album of all time, Thriller.
    All I ask you is to be respectful of others opinions and in turn we would respect yours however misguided it might be.

  50. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown and Simon,

    Those RIAA figures are just for the US not world wide. Sinatra may have sold more than 27 million in the US, but his record companies have not had them accredited by the RIAA (this is not the case with Elvis as RCA/BMG have accredited his US sales with the RIAA as rcmsrw has previously stated). Nevertheless, Sinatra has not sold more than 100 million albums in the US. In the past decade Sinatra has had a sales resurgence and according to Soundscan sold 12,221,000 albums in the US. When Sinatra was at his sales peak albums did not sell in massive quantities. Ditto with Bing Crosby.

    The IFPI tracks worldwide sales and they state The Beatles are the biggest selling artisits of all time.

    Waydown, it is true that Billy Joel has sold 79.5 million albums in the US compared to Michael Jackson’s 69.5 million. Worldwide figures would have Jackson selling more than Billy Joel. Be aware of what figures you are quoting.

    When you say that Elvis has sold 120 million singles that is his world wide figure not the US. The Beatles have also sold 120 million singles world wide.

    So the RIAA figure of 120 million albums sold by Elvis in the US is correct and 50 million behind The Beatles on 170 million.

    Simon, you say you have the statistics and figures behind you. Why don’t you produce them? I am still waiting for independent audited sales figures from you to back up your outrageous claims. Here is your chance.

    Put up or shut up Simon!

    No evidence, no credibility!

  51. Simon says:

    Cathy, of course you respect Elvis, as everyone likes him. And it DID happen at Graceland, I had it from the horse’s mouth so to speak. Your long list of facts rambles on all sides. The people you mention like James Brown and Jackie Wilson, were huge Elvis fans. James Brown even sat at Elvis’ coffin for about an hour. It is obvious you know nothing you are talking about. Michael did a lot of lipsynching at most of his shows, just goes to show how blind you are, it is a well known fact that he did do this.

    Your saying that Elvis rode on black performers’ tailcoats is SO very old and SO very lame. I could mention a whole list of black performers who thanked Elvis for giving them the opportunity to also come to the forefront. Elvis was better than all those black artists, that had nothing to do with the fact that he was white, he was simply the best.

    And you know what? Michael only married Lisa Marie hoping that some of the King’s magic would rub off on him, why he even married in the first place is a big riddle as he never slept with her. But he didn’t sleep with any woman now did he, only with little boys.
    And that is exactly how he will go down in history, the child molester who died in debt after having settled out of court so many times, paying off angry parents, after having had sex with their children. And that is exactly why America won’t p.. on him, Elvis is a shining male example and MJ is the example of how a man shouldn’t be: not content with his race/colour, child ‘lover’, freak altogether( or are you of the group who say he never had any surgery done on his face :))))

    And you know what, I don’t even care, there are so many freaks, can’t worry about all of them, but what pisses me off if someone says he sold more records than Elvis, he DIDN’t, had more talent than Elvis, he DIDN’t, was a regular good guy, he WASN’t.
    I’m not saying he wasn’t any good, he was, for a very short time, he sold a lot of records, did very well, but then it all too soon went downhill. Elvis 32 years after his death is still revered all over the world. Michael Jackson was laughed about and ridiculed because of his freaky looks, behaviour and child molestation court cases for the last 16 years of his life. Live with it.

  52. Simon says:

    Bob,

    Try to understand this….RIAA and others didn’t start counting till 1958, how many records did Elvis sell in 1955-1958 you think, he dominated the charts in 1956 and 1957 and 1958 the way the Beatles did round 1964, all those millions and millions of singles, ep’s and LP’s have never been takes into consideration. It’s like not counting the sales of the Beatles from 1963 to 1966. It’s a completely unbalanced and unrealistic ballgame. Also, what I told you earlier this week, millions of albums sold by Elvis were also not counted because they were just under the $3.00 limit. RCA made a mess of it through the years but if you think logically Elvis sold most records. He dominated the charts from 1956-1962, then again in 1969 with his comeback. He incidentally pushed away Get Back with his number one single Suspicious Minds from the top spot. He was selling millions and millions from 1956-1977 and after his death it even got better saleswise. That’s selling millions from 1956 till now. 54 years of steady selling. He has been in the top three biggest ‘dead’ earners for decennia. Where does this money come from you think? Not just from Graceland, merchandise and movie rights, no also from records sales.
    Elvis has simply sold most records, everyone who can think realizes this.
    Cheers

  53. cathy says:

    Simon
    You need help. Yes I respect Elvis but that does not mean he was the best. Far from it. When you look at figures from different sources like IFPI or Soundscan and you do not like the facts they present you just set it aside and say ‘they don’t know what they are talking about.’ You just don’t want to face up to the facts Elvis is NOT better than the Beatles or Michael Jackson worldwide.
    As for what happened at Graceland you are delusional. This quote is from Michael’s autobiography ‘Moonwalk’. Michael had written a song he had originally titled ‘Heartbreak Hotel’.
    ‘I swear I wasn’t thinking of any other song when I wrote it. The record company printed it on the cover as ‘This Place Hotel’, because of the Elvis Presley connection. As important as he was to music, black as well as white, he just wasn’t an influence on me. I guess he was too early for me. Maybe it was timing more than anything else.’ Those are Micahel’s words. I only believe what he has come out of his mouth or that he has written himself.
    As for James Brown and others being Elvis fans I never said they weren’t. As for whatever James Brown or whoever did at Elvis’s funeral. If he did he did if he didn’t he didn’t it really does not matter to me. But Michael’s memorial service was the biggest the world has ever seen. Did Elvis ever have that much attention when he passed? I don’t think so.
    It would be interesting to see this list of black performers who thanked Elvis for helping them come out to the forefront. I would very much like to see this list.
    As for Michael marrying Lisa Marie they loved each other. And Lisa Marie had said herself that yes Michael and her did sleep together and they did have sex. Are you saying Elvis’s daughter is a liar? Personally I did not like the match I thought Michael could have done much better then her. It had been rumored at one point that Lisa married Michael so he could help her get her singing career off the ground. Which I believe is not true. I believe they loved each other but once married they realized they loved each other but was not ‘in love’ with each other.
    As for the accusation that he molested children. That is an outright lie. Yes he settled the first accusation out of court with a financial settlement. But he only did that to get out from under the nightmare. The police had a search warrant which let them examine Michael’s body including his private parts and take pictures. He is a very shy person it devastated him and he just wanted it all to go away.
    But more than that think about it if you had a child and anyone molested them be it a celebrity or a man down the street you wouldn’t ask for money. Most people would want that man’s head on a platter and put in jail. Instead of saying ‘okay give me X amount of money and I will stop all of this. So to put it simply the parent wanted money and he got it. Simple as that. Michael never did anything bad to any child.
    If you talk about the second time well money is all they wanted as well plus fame. But remember he was put on trial and he was acquitted of all charges so he never did anything to harm a child. He never harmed anyone in his life. He loved everyone even you ‘the haters’ who are so naive to believe everything that you read.
    As for how Michael will be remembered he will be remembered for his genius he is on and off the stage. The records he broke and the incredible music he left behind. Sure there will be people like you who will see the lies and not the truth and continue on hating.
    Yes Michael was a bit eccentric so are most stars.
    Now as for Elvis being a shining example of how a man should be. Lets see Elvis had Priscilla live with him at Graceland as a teenager while she finished high school and later married her in 67 and had Lisa Marie in 68. Was divorced by 73. It seems quite unusual for a teenager to live with a man that is not a relative while she was in high school in 63. Then four years later marries the man May 1st of 67 and have a daughter Feb 1st of 68 they didn’t waste any time. I wonder if they got married because they ‘had to’ You have to wonder. Then trouble started brewing with the marriage in 71. They were separated in 72 and finally divorced in 73. I have heard many rumors about what went wrong in the marriage but I don’t believe rumors. I only believe facts especially if it is stated by the person himself. Not some paper or magazine.
    I heard Elvis beat her, he was an alcoholic and a drug addict who also slept around. She couldn’t handle it anymore and left him. But like I said I take those claims with a grain of salt.
    So if you think a real man is supposed to live with a teenager then marry her not long after have a child by her. Seems a bit strange to me. But that is just me.
    Michael married twice has three beautiful children which he loved more than life itself and they loved him dearly. He put his career on hold to raise his children. Yes both of his marriages did not last long. The reason the second marriage didn’t last long was because she couldn’t deal with the press constantly following her and not being able to do the normal things in life that she was able to before they got married like going to the store.
    But who stays married long anyway these days. Heck Lisa Marie has been married 4 times herself and she is 10 years younger then Michael I believe.
    As for him not liking being black that is a bunch of bull. He had vitiligo a skin disorder which takes pigmentation out of the skin. That is why he became lighter and lighter til he was porcelain white. He was a black American and he was proud of the fact. Just because the color of his skin changed that does not mean he was not black anymore.
    As for plastic surgery. He even said he had his nose done twice and a cleft put in his chin. He swore he had not done anything else. I am not sure if he did or not. I am not going to say one way or the other. Cause I can see both sides of the argument. His does look much different then what he looked like when he was younger but I believe that it was him getting older and the way he wore his hair that really changed his looks.
    And I am sorry but I must reiterate Michael had way more talent then Elvis ever did. Michael wrote, composed, choreographed, directed, produced, danced and sang. What did Elvis do? He sang, that is it.
    Oh and by the way Michael NEVER lip synced.
    Have a nice day.

  54. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    The RIAA did not start until 1958 – you are right about something for once. Album sales were not massive in the 1950’s and any “lost” sales by Elvis would be less than 10 million. Do the research. To the best of my knowledge those albums released in 1956 and 1957 have been accredited by the RIAA. I will check on that.

    Just because Elvis is one of the biggest dead earners does not mean he outsells The Beatles. As I have said many times before, according to Soundscan The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 28 million since 1991 and by 14 million in the last decade. The RIAA have The Beatles outselling Elvis by 50 million albums in the US.

    Elvis did not dominate the charts in 1969. The Beatles chart domination eclipsed any previous domination by Elvis. The Beatles had the top 5 singles and top 2 albums at one stage in 1964 – a feat that has never been replicated. The Beatles have had more #1 singles in the US than any other artist and more #1 albums in the US than any other artist. That is besides the point as that does not necessarily mean they have sold the most just because of those achievements.

    However all independent audited figures from the RIAA, Soundscan, IFPI and Billboard confirm The Beatles as the biggest selling artists of all time.

    So stop saying “everyone knows”, “we all know”, “any sane person knows”, “any thinking person knows” – that just demonstrates a lack of substance in your argument.

    Provide those statistics and figures you claim to have.

    Every claim you make is unsubstantiated. No evidence means no credibility.

    I await your statistics and figures with interest.

  55. WayDown says:

    Wow, Cathy forgive me because I didn’t read all your message (too long!). I read some lines and want to tell you this. MJ did lot of playbacks on live concerts. This is even admitted by the biggest MJ fans (just do some research and you will find the answers by yourself). Molesting kids, I can’t be sure because I wasn’t in the bed with him. All I’m sure is that MJ shared his bed many times with strangers children (he was obliged to admit that himself). If you find normal that a 40 years old man can play house/house in pajamas with a 10 years old boy than you have problems too (you should see a doctor). If an ordinary person (for example me) had done the same, he would spent his life in prison. Money and power saved his ass. Now we will talk about talent. Just note this, you know ALL the black artists (and white) in the 50’s, they didn’t have even the 1% of the King’s talent. Chuck Berry or Little Richard were kids beside the King. A Chuck Berry could not sing the 99% of the King’s songs even in his best dreams! The King had a golden range to sing rock, ballads, opera, gospel, country… Elvis was ALL in one.

    “He was the one voice I wish to have had, of all those emanating from singers in the popular music field”
    World’s top tenor and opera star,Placido Domingo(1994)

    This is not Britney Spears saying this, no this is the one of the best tenor singer in the history of opera! No Cathy, if Elvis was the King, because he was the BEST. And all the black artists who were his friends understood this and had lot of respect for the King. And talking talent about MJ… He lip synced which is an insult for the music (then I can’t consider him as a singer), he was a very good dancer, song writer? Come on! The man who never had the balls to play an instrument in front of an audience (Even Elvis played guitar and piano on concerts)! Even if it’s possible to write songs without playing an instrument, I’m convinced that a big song writer (in the shadow) did all the job for him. Invented video clips? Come on… And what was Jailhouse Rock in the 50’s? Invented the moonwalk? Come on… A black artist did it 40 years before! MJ = Thriller. That’s it! And that was a great album.

    Now Bob, I’m really in despair with you. Simon told you that the RIAA did not start until 1958. That’s a real fact but you want to deny it! Why? Simon, who I admit is a special guy ;o) gave you a great example. Not counting the King’s sales from 1955 to 1958 is not counting the Beatles best three years! For Sinatra, you really think that Sinatra didn’t sell more than 27 million albums in US in his lifetime? Are you serious Bob by telling this? RIAA’s list is a big BULL, Sinatra and Crosby should be in the top 5, but RIAA didn’t count their best years and didn’t count many other sales because of stupid counting methods (same result for Elvis). I saw some Boys bands in the RIAA’s list! Imagine boys bands sold more than Sinatra!!! Be serious Bob otherwise I can’t continue this debate with you.

    How can you say that MJ sold more than Crosby? Because RIAA put that he sold 69 million albums in US? Do you really believe in that kind of bulls? Crosby with only 2 singles (90% were sold in US) can kill MJ with all his lifetime albums! Oh I forgot! RIAA counts only albums! Come on Bob, be adult!

    See Cathy, my message is as long as yours :o)

  56. Simon says:

    Cathy, if there ever was a fake and fabricated artist, it’s Michael Jackson. He didn’t write all his own songs, he lip-synched more on stage than actually sing, his face was fake, videoclips were made by directors not by him Cathy.
    Also, what hasn’t been said he was a backstabber, he only befriended the great Paul McCartney to be able to steal the Beatles catalogue, nice human being eh.

    And like Waydown said, if you or I had admitted to sleeping with little children like MJ did admit in that infanous interview with Martin Basheer then we would have ended up in jail baby! The Disctrict Atterney is still a very frustrated man that MJ didn’t end up doing time in jail, as all evidence was there, but hey, OJ also got away with murder didn’t he.

    The ironic thing is that it would have been better for MJ had he gone to prison, where he wouldn’t have had a doctor giving him a drug only used in operations……

    AS for Elvis beating his wife, Elvis being an alcoholic, that only shows how dumb you are, Elvis didn’t even like alcohol. And he never beat Priscilla. And yes, he got to know her at a young age, but they did end up getting married didn’t they. And Cathy, MJ made what, 9 albums? He would have to have sold more than 20 million copies each to beat Elvis, how much did most of his albums sell…500.000 tops? Thriller was an exception, remember.To name but a few black artists who were Elvis fans and thanked him: Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Stevie Wonder, Terrence Trent D’Arby, the list is endless. And as for white artists, welllll almost everyone of them wanted to copy the king and openly praised him. All the greatest artists in the world: Bruce Springsteen, Mick Jagger, Lennon, McCartney,there are hundreds of them.
    Michael Jackson never started anything ‘new’.
    Elvis started the whole pop business. They even created the gold records system for him. It’s a shame so many Americans don’t even know their own history.

    And Bob..I have given you all the evidence you need, Elvis is the biggest seller of all times, I’ll say it one more time, he sold more than the Beatles, Michael Jackson and Madonna combined. End of discussion. Those are the facts, try to live with it. I can’t make you see the light, you’ll have to want to.

  57. cathy says:

    Waydown
    Michael was from the old school. He is the best live performer in our lifetime. Just because he did not play an instrument does not mean he could not write songs that is nonsense. He never lip synced. You don’t believe that this is fine.
    As for molesting children he never did anything like that. And money and power did not get him out of anything. If that happened he would never had gone to trial and went through that nightmare.
    The reason he slept in the same room with some of the kids who spent nights with him is because he was trying to live a part of his childhood that he never got to. Not saying that was a intelligent decision on his part but that is why he did it.
    You feel Elvis was great singer. That is your right. I feel Michael was a great singer, dancer, writer, composer. He wore many hats. If you don’t believe that he wrote many of his own songs that is your loss. He wrote two songs for Paul McCartney.(sorry if I spelled it wrong.) He also wrote songs that him and Paul sang together. He collaborated with many artists as well as writing his own music.
    Who did the Moonwalk 40 years before Michael? I would really like to know. According to Michael he saw the move in the black ghettos and he had three blacks kids teach it to him. After that he enhanced and perfected it and it became his signature move.
    You like Elvis I like Michael Jackson. That is just the way it is.

  58. Simon says:

    Elvis not only sang a hell of a lot better than Whacko Jacko, he also moved a lot better. Just check out Elvis doing Suspicious Minds and Polk Salad Annie in That’s The Way It Is. NOBODY ever moved better. MJ moved like he had ants in his pants, hysterial like a school girl. And he DID lipsynch most of the time Cathy, even MJ fans admit to that.
    And if you find that there is nothing wrong with a grown man sleeping with children, well…..that says a lot about you, remind me not to hire you as a babysitter :)

  59. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    I think you should read what I said more closely. I stated that the RIAA has not accredited all Sinatra’s sales in the US, but that his sales would still be less than 100 million. To my knowledge Elvis’ sales prior to 1958 were counted by the RIAA – I am checking that out. I will get back to you when I have confirmation.

    The bottom line is that on independently audited sales The Beatles outsell Elvis by 50 million in the US.

    You don’t have to like it but you must accept the figures.

  60. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again you state you have provided the evidence but you have not.

    No evidence, no credibility.

    RIAA, Soundscan, Billboard, IFPI all confirm The Beatles as the biggest selling artists of all time.

    Enjoy that fact.

  61. cathy says:

    Simon
    First of all I never said he wrote all of his songs. I said he wrote a lot of his own songs as well as other artists. As for backstabbing Paul McCartney that is a bunch of crap. Paul actually wanted to work with Michael. Paul had written a song with Michael in mind called ‘Girlfriend’ which he eventually recorded on ‘Off The Wall’. Also Paul was the one who gave Michael the idea to buy the Beatles catalog. Paul had him come over and he showed him his own catalog of songs he had purchased himself. When the catalog came up for sale Michael bid on it and won the bid. Simple as that. He never stole anything from Paul or anyone else.
    As for directors putting the videos together. Yes he had directors but he put in his two cents after Thiller. Once he got more comfortable in his abilities he was more hands on then before. John Landis even said that during Thriller he was the one who was the director but by the time ‘Black and White’ came out John Landis was just another person on the set. Michael knew what he wanted and he got it.
    Tom Sneeden had it in for Michael from the beginning he even had the FBI investigating Michael from 93 and on. But FBI could never find anything against Michael.
    As for Bashir for some reason he had it in for him as well. He slanted those interviews to make it look like Michael was weird. Michael had his own cameras running during those interviews and if you really want to know what really happened during those interviews then go and watch them. If you really want to know the truth go to youtube.com/watch?v=IszVcxKssog&feature=PlayList&p=8C53B3EA59702CA3&index=45 that is the start of the real interview without the slant that Bashir put on it. Even Bashir said after his passing in this clip youtube.com/watch?v=X8N-WCNJ_Vs that he never saw anything wrong or criminal.
    As for his album sales if you don’t want to believe IFPI then that is your business.
    Michael was an innovator of our time. He changed a lot of things about the music industry. Even Will I Am, the leader of the Black Eyed Peas said, ‘The music industry needed something to put a jolt back into the music industry and the only thing that can do that is the jolt itself, Michael Jackson.

  62. rcmsrw says:

    Bob, thanks for doing such extensive research and providing the proof of sales.

  63. Simon says:

    rcmsrw and Bob, Waydown and I have provided all the evidence you need, everyone else here realizes that of COURSE Elvis outsold everyone and so yes also including the Beatles. Elvis sold twice as much as the Beatles, at LEAST. Why can’t you be content with the fact and evidence that the boys are right behind Elvis in sales, well right behind….a long way behind :) but anyway they are in second place. Elvis has always been number one and will remain so, all evidence proves it, you 2 boys can’t read it seems, but anyway Elvis has been established the number one sales artist and the Beatles second, you 2 boys enjoy THAT fact :)
    Have a nice day.

  64. Simon says:

    74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:ti9Og_N1piwJ:www.elvis.com.au/presley/one_billion_record_sales.shtml+Elvis+Presley+worldwide+sales&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

    Here’s another very indepth article on Elvis’ worldwide sales. The conclusion is predictable, Elvis sold twice as much as The Beatles. Facts you want? Facts you will get :)
    Enjoy the reading.

  65. cathy says:

    Simon
    You are delusional. For one thing the Beatles were the best selling artist of all time. Then comes Michael Jackson. As for Elvis moving better then Michael you need help. As said by Fred Astarte ‘Michael, you are hell of a mover.’ Others have said he was a dancer in his soul. He could be shown a step once and be able to do it. It was a gift he had.
    If you think Elvis’s hip movements is dancing well I feel sorry for you.
    I will not argue with you any longer. It is getting tedious.

    rcmsrw
    It has been a honor to debate with you. You have more integrity then many on this forum and I will miss our debates. I feel you have heard me and I have heard you. The Beatles sold the most records in history for now. But I am sure Michael Jackson will give them a run for their money. hehe Be well. You are a very good person. Thank you for listening and understanding. And agreeing with me on certain points. It has been an education with you. With others it has been aggravating.

  66. Simon says:

    @Cathy, the only one here who is delusional is you if you really really think Michael has outsold Elvis Presley hahhaa you really are a fruitcake moron aren’t you? He has sold 350 million records TOP, and that’s even flattering, Elvis sold at least 5 times that much. And even the great Sammy Davis Jr. thought Elvis was the best dancer.

    Michael Jackson was considered a total freak and child molester the last 16 years of his life and he will go down history that way. By the way, I had a discussion the other day, do you perhaps know if he was buried WITH or without his plastic nose?

    Michael Jackson outselling ELVIS haha, thank you for the laugh you gave me, I really needed that.
    Have a nice day whereever you are( probably in some mental institution-hopefully….)

  67. Simon says:

    And remember Cathy, Michael himself proclaimed that Elvis was the King, why would you not agree with your own idol?
    Have a good one.

  68. Simon says:

    Final thought for the day Cathy:
    Ask any child in elementary school what they think when they hear the name Elvis, they will say, He’s the King! The greatest. The all American hero, then ask what they’ll say when they hear the name Michael Jackson: after the intial shrieking they will say: he’s the person my parents always warn me about :)
    Have a nice weekend.

  69. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    The RIAA have accredited Elvis albums released in 1956, 1957 and 1958 so there are no “lost” sales there.

    You still have not provided any independent audited sales figures supporting your argument.

    All independent audited sales figures confirm The Beatles as the biggest seling artists of all time.

    Enjoy.

  70. Simon says:

    Hey Bob, you may think the Beatles sold most, but not in the real world. Enjoy your fantasies, everyone knows Elvis has outsold every artist, as of now Elvis sales are 2:1 regarding the Beatles. For every Beatles record/CD there are 2 Elvis records/cd’s sold, poetic justice, he was at least twice as good.
    Cheers.

  71. Charles says:

    I don’t understand this whole discussion….
    As far as I know and everyone around me Elvis Presley is the king and by far the most popular entertainer of the 20th century. He even received The Entertainer of the 20th Century Award.

    And as far as Elvis being popular around the world….I have lived in Asia, Australia, England and the US and in all those places Elvis Presley was always treated like a god.

    My two cents anyway.
    Charles

  72. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    As usual your statements are unsubstantiated.

    No evidence, no credibility.

    Independent audited sources – RIAA, Soundscan, Billboard, IFPI – all say The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

  73. Charles says:

    Not in the real world Bob. Everyone acknowledges and knows Elvis to be number one. Despite all evidence I showed you you still come with the same lame remarks. Elvis number one (over 1.5 billion units) Beatles number two (approximately 650 million units) Elvis has sold twice as much as the Beatles. Enjoy that fact.
    Cheers.

  74. Charles says:

    @Charles,

    Although I appreciate your help, please use your own wording. I can fight my own battles thank-you-very-much :)

    And Bob you ARE wrong. Elvis is the all-time record holder. He simply sold the most records.

  75. Charles says:

    I can’t follow this anymore, but anyway, Elvis is the number one selling recording artist. Not the Beatles, let that be clear.

  76. Bob says:

    Hey Popdirt,

    That last comment was not by me, who has consistently put forward evidence that The Beatles are the biggest selling artisits.

    This blog appears to be corrupt, and as you are the moderator I expect you to clarify that the person who posted at March 28th 2010 at 8.30pm is not me.

    Please do that or else this blog is pointless.

    The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time as confirmed by the RIAA, Soundscan, Billboard and IFPI.

  77. WayDown says:

    Bob, you’re not credible…

    Cathy, just type “moonwalk” on Google and look at Wiki or other sites to know the truth about this move. MJ just stole it from others. But I don’t blame him for that because even if he took that move from others, he used to do it very well. So no problem with that… But he did not invent it.

    For record sales, I quit because you all have here mental problems and you should see a doctor. I’ve told you many times that RIAA was US sales only, album sales only (not singles), idiot counting methods that buchers some sales…didn’t count sales prior to 1958… I gave you the proofs that Crosby could kill MJ with only 2 singles (30 million each) but RIAA don’t count singles… I asked a question how MJ’s sales could jump from 250 million to 750 million from 2006 to 2009 and I didn’t have the answer… Anyway be happy I think that Madonna has sold as much as the King, that explains your intelectual level !

  78. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    All independent audited evidence says The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. I would back my credibility against yours anytime as I provide sourced evidence for my statements. The RIAA, Soundscan, IFPI and Billboard confirm The Beatles are the biggest selling artisits of all time. No evidence, no credibility.

    That posting at 8.30 pm originally was assigned to a “Bob” which wasn’t me, and has now been assigned to Charles.

  79. Simon says:

    Well said WayDown. Some people believe what they want, despite all the evidence that is thrown in front of their eyes. Every sane person on this planet knows and believes that Elvis has outsold everyone, yet some still come up with RIAA etc. saying the Beatles sold more…

    It’s a hopeless case. And indeed Bing Crosby of course has sold more than Whacko Jacko. He was a flash in the pan, while Crosby steadily sold for decades on end. MJ wasn’t selling anything anymore when he died, for about 16 years already. He was still thinking that he was the number one seller, but Thriller was about 25 years ago already and he was selling peanuts the last 15 years.

    Anyway, I am sure everyone knows Elvis was is and always be the king and record seller, except the special people Bob, R2D2 and Cathy :)
    Have a good one.

  80. Simon says:

    ” As if already selling more records than any other artist in history wasn’t enough, the year 2002 – 25 years after his death, became one of the most successful in his entire career. ELV1S 30 #1 HITS became the fastest selling album of his entire career with more than 9 million copies sold in just a few short months.”

    This is a short snippet from Sony :) The company where Jackson also is. Even his OWN company acknowledged that Elvis sold the most! Enjoy that fact Bob, R2D2 and Cathy.

    elvisthemusic.com/us/biography

  81. WayDown says:

    RIAA is only US and albums, RIAA is only US and albums, RIAA is only US and albums, RIAA is only US and albums, RIAA is only US and albums, RIAA is only US and albums…

    That’s enough or I must repeat again?

    No RIAA before 1958, No RIAA before 1958, No RIAA before 1958, No RIAA before 1958, No RIAA before 1958, No RIAA before 1958…

    That’s enough or I must repeat again?

    RIAA doesn’t count all disk labels, RIAA doesn’t count all disk labels, RIAA doesn’t count all disk labels, RIAA doesn’t count all disk labels, RIAA doesn’t count all disk labels…

    That’s enough or I must repeat again?

    RIAA doesn’t count sales below 3$, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 3$, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 3$, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 3$…

    That’s enough or I must repeat again?

    RIAA doesn’t count sales below 500000, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 500000, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 500000, RIAA doesn’t count sales below 500000…

    That’s enough or I must repeat again?

    God that’s not difficult to understand !

  82. Simon says:

    Waydown, all excellent points as I stated some of these before myself. But it’s useless trying to convince Bob and R2D2. I guess they are the kind of people who’ll also say: Dino’s never existed as I never saw one with my own eyes.
    Blind to all the facts, Elvis has been a major seller since 1956. ALL his records sold from 1955-1958 have never been counted! A blind horse can see that Elvis is the biggest seller. It’s like not counting the sales of Love Me Do, I wanna Hold Your Hand and all those other big sellers from 1963-1966.
    At the time of his death he’d sold over 750 million records, by 1980 one BILLION, so even the 1.5 billion mark is a VERY conservative figure. Almost 33 years afther his death all big stars say he was their greatest influence, his albums are available in every record store, his music DVD’s sell by the truckload.
    The Beatles are very much passe, almost no record store even stocks their cd’s. Elvis was is and remains the only King in music. You WayDown, I and every sane person realizes this. Let Bob and R2D2 be and let them believe their idols are the biggest. Everyone else knows they are not, that’s enough for me :)

  83. Simon says:

    Another FACT to enjoy Bob: The UK Singles Chart

    1. Elvis Presley – 21 Number One Hits
    2. the Beatles – (only) 17 Number One Hits

    Whacko Jacko is at ranked in 17th(!!!) place with only 7 Number One Hits. Even Westlife and The Spice Girls had more number ones than Michael!!!! The title of King of Pop is ludicrous, you have to earn that title, and guess who earns it? Elvis Presley, most number one hits, most records sold, bestknown, best loved, most gifted, best looking, most imitated, most revered. Yes, there can only be one, Elvis!

    Enjoy the reading Bob and R2D2 and Cathy (17th place Cathy!!!)

    Elvis, the only King of Pop.

    74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:9ut2JGaPyEoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Singles_Chart_records+British+charts+number+ones+Elvis+Beatles&cd=2&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

  84. Simon says:

    Some more enjoyable FACTS(I know you love them Bob and R2D2) from the UK Singles Chart:

    Other records

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (131)
    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (120)
    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (95)
    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (66)
    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54). Runner-up: Madonna (44)

    Most weeks on singles chart: Elvis Presley (1277 wks). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (1166 weeks)

    ELVIS devastated and still devastates every record!!!

    Everyone can clearly see that the title King is well deserved, and he didn’t even come up with the title himself Cathy :)

  85. Simon says:

    The above facts can be found here:

    74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:9ut2JGaPyEoJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Singles_Chart_records+British+charts+number+ones+Elvis+Beatles&cd=2&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

  86. Simon says:

    How on earth could someone outsell ELVIS seeing all these facts and figures :)

    One wonders where all those millions of sales of Michael came from, he had only 7(!!!!) number ones in one of the most important charts…….
    Anyway, Elvis rules and don’t you just love it.

  87. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again you have not produced any sales figures. The chart achievements by Elvis you quoted only show he was extremely successful – not that he is the biggest selling artist of all time.

    It is interesting that you quote the singles charts in the UK but ignore the biggest market in the world – the US.

    Let us look at the US:

    #1 Singles in the US:

    The Beatles 20
    Elvis 18

    #1 Albums in the US:

    The Beatles 19
    Elvis 10

    Now for the UK

    #1 Singles in the UK:

    The Beatles 17
    Elvis 21

    #1 Albums in the UK:

    The Beatles 15
    Elvis 11

    Total #1’s in the US & UK:

    Singles:

    The Beatles 37
    Elvis 39

    Albums:

    The Beatles 35
    Elvis 21

    Total #1’s in the US & UK:

    The Beatles 71
    Elvis 60

    What about worldwide?

    These are albums and songs that reached #1 in at least one chart: Source: tsort.info/music/faq_num1.htm

    Singles:

    The Beatles 66
    Elvis 53

    Albums:

    The Beatles 37
    Elvis 22

    Total #1 albums and singles worldwide:

    The Beatles 103
    Elvis 75

    As you can see, The Beatles surpass Elvis in #1 singles and albums.

    However chart achievements do not specify sales figures, but just indicate that The Beatles and Elvis have been incredibly successful. Though if youi want to use chart achievements as a comparison The Beatles surpass Elvis.

    Sales figures:

    US albums: Source RIAA

    The Beatles 170 million
    Elvis 120 million

    UK singles: Source Official Charts Company

    Cliff Richard 21.31 million
    Elvis 20.91 million
    The Beatles 20.82 million

    Worldwide Singles: Fan of Music website

    The Beatles 119.39 million
    Elvis 120.10 million

    Worldwide Albums: Source IFPI

    The Beatles 400 milion
    Elvis 300 million

    Album sales in US 1991-2009 : Source Soundscan

    The Beatles 60 million
    Elvis 32 million

    Album sales in the US 2000-2009: Source Soundscan

    The Beatles 30,182,000
    Elvis 16,486,000

    The Beatles have also sold more albums than Elvis in the UK and Europe.

    You quote Sony as saying Elv1s 30 #1’s was the fastest selling of his career – so what!

    In the US it has sold 4.5 million compared to The Beatles 1 which has sold 11.5 milion (Source: Soundscan).

    Worldwide The Beatles 1 has sold 30 million compared to 10 million for Elv1s 30 #1’s. (Source mediatraffic).

    You say The Beatles are passe – how come The Beatles remasters have sold 15 milion worldwide compared to about 150,000 for Elvis 75? In a previous post I stated Elvis 75 sold one million but on further research I discovered it has sold only a measly 150,000 (Source: mediatraffic). If The Beatles are passe that would make Elvis almost extinct.

    So, Simon there are some sales figures for you to digest.

    Even on chart achievements The Beatles have more #1’s than Elvis. Whichever way you want to look at it The Beatles surpass Elvis.

    Sales figures confirm The Beatles are the biggest selling artists in the world.

  88. Simon says:

    Not in the real world Bob.

    Those sources you come up with are very unreliable sources, they have been proven corrupt time and time again.Every person who can think for himself knows Elvis is the number one in everything. Long before those institutions even EXISTED Elvis was selling tens of millions of singles, EP’s and LP’s all over this world.

    People in the remotest villages in Africa, Asia, communist China and Russia were buying Elvis records, he was even deemed a product of capitalist America to destroy the communist youth in Russia in as early as 1957. Longgggg before everybody started counting, Elvis the King was selling millions and millions of records.
    Then there are the MILLIONS of records that just weren’t counted as they only cost $2.99 ($3.00 being the lowest admissable price). Every household in the world has Elvis albums, the world is literary flooded with Elvis records and CD’s, and I even showed you those UK stats which show there is no denying Elvis is indeed the greatest and most succesful artist in the world.

    And something I keep mentioning and you never answer to, visit any record store and there are heaps of Elvis CD’s and maybe a few Beatles cd’s, shop keepers only stock what sells. Elvis keeps selling in unbelievable quantities. For your personal information, I like the Beatles’ body of work, they were excellent composers, at least until they got into that drugs phase, then I wasn’t too thrilled with their music anymore. Paul McCartney offered time and time again to make an album with his idol, now that is something I would have liked to see happen!

    But anyway you look at it, Elvis is the real king, topping all the charts and the number one selling artist of all time. Long live the King.
    Cheers.

  89. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again you produce no evidence so no credibility. Every record store I go into has the whole Beatles catalogue on sale.

    US album sales 2009:

    The Beatles 3,282,000,

    This is 2 million more than Elvis. So The Beatles ouitsold Elvis by a long way just last year. So some record stores must be stocking Beatles CDs.

    Simon, your arguments are pathetic – you just use generalisations. So until you can provide some sales figures you are not credible.

  90. Simon says:

    Bob,

    If anyone is not credible, it’s you….I won’t comment on the Charles/Bob debacle any further…

    But your statements mean nothing to me Bob, everybody knows who is the King and who has sold the most records, not Garth Brooks, not that Cyrus flavour of the month, not the Beatles. No Elvis, and that’s just the way it is. I have provided you with ALL the evidence and facts and figures you will ever need. You just can’t be convinced, but the funny thing is that everybody else IS convinced that Elvis is the King in everything, also sales.

    The only thing you can come up with are those institutions that weren’t even around when the King was selling his mega records, so what do they mean to me? Zilch.

    Every sane person who can think for himself and can look around for himself KNOWS Elvis is the greatest seller ever. The Beatles take a very good second place, even though Elvis has outsold them 2:1 :) And you just can’t stand that FACT now, can you. But nevertheless enjoy that fact that for every Beatles record sold, there have been 2 Elvis records sold. Hey, there can only be one the greatest…ELVIS. Enjoy.

  91. Simon says:

    Statements by companies that DO matter:

    Q. Is RCA still committed to proving that Elvis is indeed “The Greatest Record Seller of All Time?

    A. Elvis is the largest seller of records of all time; we have nothing to prove. Nonetheless, we are committed to making sure that he is properly certified in the future, as well as continuing to increase his sales and maintain his importance on our roster

    Sony: (same company where Michael’s at):

    As if already selling more records than any other artist in history wasn’t enough, the year 2002 – 25 years after his death, became one of the most successful in his entire career. ELV1S 30 #1 HITS became the fastest selling album of his entire career with more than 9 million copies sold in just a few short months.

    Enjoy the facts Bob. Long live the King, Elvis!

  92. rcmsrw says:

    Hey Popdirt is it time to end the discussion? Between waydown and Simon it has gotten ridiculous. How do you argue against facts? By saying every sane person knows? Just pure dumb. Bob has given the facts as they are. Again the 4 agebcies that count record sales, RIAA, IFPA Billboard and Soundscan ALL SAY THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. Why are we still arguing? You can look it up. There ‘s no sense in continuing this discussion. And waydown you need to look up the RCA/ RIAA/BMG agreement on Elvis’sales Again as has been shown and you can look this up, RIAA and BMG audited Elvis’ sales as RCA was saying just like you that Elvis sold more than reported. They came up with more sales, WHICH WERE AGREED TO BY RCA, and Elvis was still millions behind Beatles. END OF STORY. Cathy, yes, it was nice debating with you. Good luck.

  93. WayDown says:

    Once again rcmsrw, you are singing your song without reading my messages. I gave several proofs that RIAA numbers are BULL and I think you’re enough adult and intelligent to understand that. But you are happy with the RIAA’s counting methods (albums only, US only, >1958 sales only, >3$ sales only, not all disk label sales, not <500000 sales, …)

    I’m disappointed, you were more credible than our friend Bob who I understand is a huge Beatles fan and is defending his idols, but truth is truth, if you are happy with RIAA’s bull, then yes, end of discussion.

    P.S. I still adore the Beatles for the treasure they brought to the popular music.

  94. Simon says:

    In the real world there even isn’t a discussion rcmsrw, every sane person KNOWS there is only ONE best seller, and of course that is Elvis. WayDown and myself have given time and time again all the facts, figures and comments one needs to realize that Elvis has outsold everyone, he has outsold the Beatles 2:1. There is no competition.
    Elvis was is and always will be untouchable, he is nearing the 2 billion mark in the not too distant future(if he hasn’t already passed it, all counts have always been very conservative as everyone knows who sometimes reads a music magazine). There simply is no touching him, not by the Beatles, and certainly not by Whacko Jacko…..

    Enjoy those facts.
    Cheers.

  95. Bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    rcmsrw is absolutely correct. Statements by RCA, BMG and Sony do not count as they are just statements and none have provided any audited proof.

    US albums update : Source RIAA

    The Beatles 171 million
    Elvis 120 million

    The Beatles 1 album has been upgraded to 11 times platinum.

    Some more chart facts for you, Simon.

    #1 Singles in Australia:

    The Beatles 23
    Elvis 12

    #1 Albums in Australia:

    The Beatles 14
    Elvis 1

    I know you love the UK charts so enjoy these facts:

    Weeks at #1 on UK singles chart:

    The Beatles 69
    Elvis 80

    Weeks at #1 on UK albums chart:

    The Beatles 174
    Elvis 63

    Total weeks at #1 on UK singles and album charts:

    The Beatles 243
    Elvis 143

    So, Simon unless you can provide sales figures to support your contentions it is pointless continuing.

    Enjoy!

  96. Simon says:

    I have given you all the facts and figures you need Bob, Elvis outsells the Beatles 2:1, he’s had 21 Number One Singles in the most important Singles Chart list, the Beatles only 17, in their own home country, how sad for you….

    You can say whatever you like about the Beatles outselling Elvis, but not in the real world Bob, you and R2D2 are the only ones nagging about the Beatles selling more records than the King. EVERYONE here knows it’s Elvis, Elvis, Elvis.
    Elvis number one, the Beatles number two, and doesn’t that just aggravate you.

    Elvis has sold more than the Beatles, Whacko Jacko and Madonna combined, now that is who you can call the real King of pop music. Long live the King.

  97. Bob says:

    Simon,

    You have not provided ONE sales figure that has been independently audited to support your claims. Not ONE sales figure!

    Your claim that Elvis has outsold The Beatles 2:1 is preposterous and not worth commenting on. Where is your proof?

    You keep mentioning the UK singles charts – but so what. You ignore the biggest market in the world – the US – where the Beatles totally dominate. You also ignore the singles sales figures for the UK which are:

    Cliff Richard 21.31 million
    Elvis 20.91 million
    The Beatles 20.82 million.

    So, Elvis has outsold The Beatles by 90,000 singles in the UK. WOW!

    The Beatles have outsold Elvis by many millions of albums in the UK. Not to mention many millions in the US (51 million to be exact), many millions in Europe and many more millions in the rest of the world.

    You say my sources are corrupt. The RIAA is not corrupt. Soundscan is not corrupt. The IFPI is not corrupt. Billboard is not corrupt. The Official Charts Company is not corrupt. You are making some libellous statements. Are you aware that even on the internet you can be traced and charged with libel? You don’t have any aources other than record companies with vested interests.

    So Simon, please provide some evidence for your claims, otherwise they remain unsubstantiated claims. So until you provide some evidence don’t expect me to respond.

    Evidence based proof not your normal rhetoric.

    Remember, no evidence means no credibility.

  98. WayDown says:

    Why I can’t leave comments anymore ?

  99. WayDown says:

    Beatles are first with the following mistakes in the counting :

    – Singles not counted
    – Only US albums counted
    – Sales <3$ not counted
    – Sales <500000 examples not counted
    – Many other disk labels not counted for Elvis
    – Sales before 1958 not counted
    – Some double albums (ex : Aloha, In Concert, …) counted as simple and not double
    – Most important sales during the 12 months after Elvis’ death not counted
    – …

    Garth Brooks has recently been quoted: "… I’m never going to be on the Beatles’ [level] in my mind. If I am to someone else out there, thank you, that’s flattering, but I’ll never believe it. And the RIAA was sweet to give us the largest selling solo act in history, but I think we all know it’s Elvis. It’s just the method of counting wasn’t as certifiable then as it is now. So it’s cool and everything, but at the same time, please know I am seeing it with a very real look."

    rcmsrw, see how humble Garth Brooks is? He is enough intelligent to admit that the RIAA’s counting methods are full of bull for Elvis sales, but you and our great friend Bob are still singing your song! Why? Why can’t you say that the Beatles are first, but the counting methods are false or incomplete. Why can’t you just admit this?

    P.S I still adore the Beatles for the treasure they brought to the popular music. And no matter if they are first or second in sales.

  100. WayDown says:

    rcmsrw, why can’t you understand the truth about RIAA? Or may be you don’t want to understand…

    Beatles are first with the following mistakes in the counting :

    Singles not counted, Only US almbums counted, Sales <3$ not counted, Sales <500000 examples not counted, Many other disk labels not counted for Elvis, Sales before 1958 not counted, Some double albums (ex : Aloha, In Concert, …) counted as simple and not double, Most important sales during the 12 months after Elvis’ death not counted, …

    Garth Brooks has recently been quoted: "… I’m never going to be on the Beatles’ [level] in my mind. If I am to someone else out there, thank you, that’s flattering, but I’ll never believe it. And the RIAA was sweet to give us the largest -selling solo act in history, but I think we all know it’s Elvis. It’s just the method of counting wasn’t as certifiable then as it is now. So it’s cool and everything, but at the same time, please know I am seeing it with a very real look."

    rcmsrw, see how humble Garth Brooks is? He is enough intelligent to admit that the RIAA’s counting methods are full of bull for Elvis sales, but you and our great friend Bob are still singing your song! Why? Why can’t you say that the Beatles are first, but the counting methods are false or incomplete. Why can’t you just admit this?

    P.S I still adore the Beatles for the treasure they brought to the popular music. And no matter if they are first or second in sales.

  101. WayDown says:

    rcmsrw, why can’t you understand the truth about RIAA? Or may be you don’t want to understand…

    Garth Brooks has recently been quoted: “… I’m never going to be on the Beatles’ [level] in my mind. If I am to someone else out there, thank you, that’s flattering, but I’ll never believe it. And the RIAA was sweet to give us the largest -selling solo act in history, but I think we all know it’s Elvis. It’s just the method of counting wasn’t as certifiable then as it is now. So it’s cool and everything, but at the same time, please know I am seeing it with a very real look.”

    rcmsrw, see how humble Garth Brooks is? He is enough intelligent to admit that the RIAA’s counting methods are full of bull for Elvis sales, but you and our great friend Bob are still singing your song! Why? Why can’t you say that the Beatles are first, but the counting methods are false or incomplete. Why can’t you just admit this?

    P.S I still adore the Beatles for the treasure they brought to the popular music. And no matter if they are first or second in sales.

  102. Simon says:

    Bob,

    What libellous statements are you exactly meaning? I find your statement libellous!
    And once more, everyone in the REAL world knows Elvis is the biggest selling act in pop music, please stop your pathetic attempts to prove otherwise. You ain’t fooling people (R2D2 not counted).

    Elvis outsells the Beatles 2:1
    There IS no competition, no-one can even come close.
    Do you REALLY think the Beatles have outsold the King in the States of all places? You can’t be serious. Ever since Lennon proclaimed they were bigger than Jesus, their popularity in the States went right down hill. People even burnt their records. Sales and popularity never reached its old levels after that. Elvis is revered as a god in the States, as he is all over the world, his records came like the seasons and still do, and each and every release sella big time, he simply IS unbeatable and has almost sold 2 billion records. The beatles are farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr behind, not to speak of the rest.

    So Bob, I’m sorry for you but your words are useless. Elvis was, is and remains the sales King.
    And please tell me what the libellous remark was :)
    Cheers.
    Long live the King!

  103. Simon says:

    If you were referring to my comments about IFPI, RIAA, Billboard and Soundscan as being libellous…I will repeat it: IFPI, RIAA, Billboard and Soundscan ARE CORRUPT. Sue me….. :)

    Elvis number one almost 2 Billion records sold.
    The Beatles number 2 approximately 650 million records sold.

    Enjoy that fact.
    Cheers.

  104. patricia66 says:

    @Bob
    Please give the exact source of the statistics for the quoted 2000 to 2009 sales. I checked the IFPI statistics on the IFPI homepage and found out that the leading artists changed quite a bit from year to year during the time period 2000 to 2008.

    Among the top 10 ot the top 50 global sales artists are:
    MJ: 2001
    Elvis Presley: 2002
    The Beatles: 2006

    All three are mentionend only once among the top 10 in the respective time period. So, where does your statistic derives from?

  105. patricia66 says:

    Elvis Presley actually is the King of Pop according to Joel Whitburn’s chart statistics (Billboard’s top pop singles): Elvis had 165 charting songs up to 2008 followed by James Brown with a 107 and Ray Charles with 91, The Beatles and MJ nowhere in sight.

    Elvis had 14 no 1 albums up to 1977 alone, 9 in the Billboard pop charts and 5 different (!) ones in the Country charts – I counted the Aloha album which was no. 1 simultanously in pop and country only once. Besides, Elvis is – according to Whitburn – the only artist ever who had no. hits in pop, country, r&b, adult contemporary as well as country charts. He is by far the leader of the 500 most successful artists of 1954 up to 2008 with 9,029 points, the Beatles being second with 5,230 points, Elton John being third.

    According to Whitburn Elvis was only artist so far to be the leading solo artist in two decades, the 1950s (second was Pat Boone) plus the 1960s (second Ray Charles). In the 1970s Elvis was still no. 7 among the solo artists, no. 1 being Elton John. MJ was no. 1 in the 1980s and dropped to no. 20 in the 1990s, in the 2000s he is nowhere in sight. The guy is truly overestimated ;-).

    You can easlily check this in “Joel Whitburn’s Top Pop Singles 1954 – 2008”, 12th edition 2009.

  106. Simon says:

    @Patricia,

    Thank you for those wonderful facts! Elvis is the real King of Pop as I constantly state, there are just some ignorant people who think otherwise. Take that MJ phenomenon…..it’s already fading fast! We have a weekly TV show here, Move Like Michael Jackson. The ratings are deplorable! And the show is quickly moved to Thursday evening. Only Elvis has that drawing and selling power almost 33 years after his death, and he is STILL the King, how magnificent is that.
    Cheers.

  107. Bob says:

    Hey patricia66,

    Those 2000-2009 figures are US album sales. The source is Soundscan and the figures are:

    The Beatles 30,182,000
    Elvis 16,486,000

  108. Simon says:

    @Bob, you spoke of the US charts, which you think are the most important, here are some Facts about those US charts, Elvis devastates any other artist, read it and weep:

    “According to the Billboard Charts, the bible of the recording industry, Elvis Presley far surpasses his contemporaries. In addition to his unprecedented top ten singles (38), he has the most charted singles(149), the most top 40 hits(107), and a few other achievements. Most weeks at #1(80), most consecutive #1 hits(10) and (30) consecutive top ten hits. Need we say more?
    (Billboard Magazine, Billboard Chart Information provided by Joel Whitburn’s Record Research Publications)

    There is only one King of Pop Music, Elvis Presley! Read the facts, there is no denying them! Elvis the King forever, The Beatles and MJ nowhere in sight. End of discussion.

  109. patricia66 says:

    @Simon
    Hi, I’m quite sure that MJ is fading fast. Was very surprised that his people achieved such a deal with Sony a couple of days ago. Looks to me that Sony is going to rock the boat once more – like they did in the past with a MJ contract.

    @Bob
    Thanks for the figures. Is there a website where I can check these figures? No disrespect meant! I’m asking because the Beatles are not really higher positioned according to the IFPI than Elvis during the mentioned period. They are both big “oldie” sellers and achieve quite a bit every time a special edition of them is published – same with AC/DC and such.

  110. patricia66 says:

    @Bob
    Hi, I found the figures you are refering to. Unfortunately, these are sales figures for a single album by an artist in the US in the mentioned period. It does not say anything about how many albums or singles an artist has sold in total in the decade. It’s just about ONE best sold album. This distinction is important for all artists like Presley, James Brown asf who stem from an era where lots of singles and albums were produced and are therefore repackaged today. The sales of these artists are divided among a lot of different albums today. In case of Presley this shows in the many (151 up to this day) RIAA certifications he has for different albums and singles… and these are still not all he published, amazing enough. He was very productive plus successful in a time where this was the norm whereas the Beatles squeezed their work into relatively few albums in a time when things began slowly to change. I really think you can’t compare these two, it’s like apples and oranges. Besides, Elvis loved the Beatles and their songwriting skills and John Lennon was crazy about Elvis – just read Hillburns Cornflakes with John Lennon ;-). Paul up to this day owns the bass that Elvis and his Blue Moon Boys used in the 1950s and he likes to play Heartbreak Hotel on it.

  111. Bob says:

    patricia66,

    Those figures are for total albums sold in the US from 2000-2009. The source is Soundscan and again those figures are:

    The Beatles sold 30,182,000 albums from 2000-2009.
    Elvis sold 16,486,000 albums from 2000-2009.

    These figures are for the US.

    Since Soundscan commenced in 1991 the figures are:

    The Beatles sold 60 million albums in the US from 1991.
    Elvis sold 32 million albums in the US from 1991.

    These are total album sales by The Beatles and Elvis in the US during the periods specified.

  112. Bob says:

    Simon,

    They are chart facts and do not represent sales figures.

    A few more sales figures for you.

    UK albums: Source OCC/Musicweek

    The Beatles : 32 million albums sold in the UK
    Elvis : 18 million albums sold in the UK

    Some chart facts:

    Beatles #1 singles in various countries;

    Canada 24
    Sweden 24
    Netherlands 24
    Norway 21

    More than Elvis in each country.

    In the UK the top 10 played artists on radio, TV, clubs, stores from 2000-2009:

    Source The Royalty Body PPL

    1 Madonna
    2 The Beatles
    3 Robbie Williams
    4 Queen
    5 Take That
    6 Sugababes
    7 Elton John
    8 Elvis Presley
    9 Abba
    10 Coldplay

    For airplay in the US, check out gracenote/map. You will see The Beatles are currently #1 in 21 US states and top 10 in about 25 others. Elvis is not in the top 10 in any US state.

    Other countries throughout the world have similar listening trends.

    These chart facts and listening trends do not indicate sales. The topic of this blog refers to sales. You still have not provided one sales figure.

    No evidence, no credibility.

  113. WayDown says:

    No, not gracenote/map again Bob, please lets be serious for few seconds at least. All your sources from the beginning of this forum are wrong. The Beatles 2nd on gracenote/map in a country like Afghanistan, or Beatles and Elvis 1st and 2nd in Iraq ! Please Bob give correct sources otherwise we can’t continue an adult debate! You base your “facts” on RIAA who counts what they want to count and gracenote/map who will place Beatles 2nd in Afghanistan where the 99% of the people don’t even know what a Beatle is! For them it must me surely a new mark of chocolate!

    For information, 2Pac is 3rd in Iraq :o)

  114. WayDown says:

    Ooh Lady Gaga is in the top 10 in Saudi Arabia on gracenote/map :o) A country where Lady Gaga is surely banned for religious reasons!

    Bob, give real sources and not bulls please !

  115. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    gracenote is a real source. If you have a problem with it I suggest you contact them. I did not make up that source. Perhaps you should check gracenote’s methodology with gracenote and then ascertain whether it’s evidence is valid or not.

    As I have said previously listening trends and chart facts are not a measurement of sales.

    RIAA, Soundscan, OCC, CRIA, RIAJ and ARIA etc measure sales and these sources have The Beatles way ahead of Elvis.

  116. Gerrad says:

    Lady Gaga ain’t banned in Saudi Arabia.

  117. rcmsrw says:

    Waydown, listen. I am arguing this thing as credibly as I can. I do not give BS comments like Simon, who again shouldn’t be on this sight. he only gives opinion and off the wall statements( “the Beatles were big for 4 years in the 60s”). This shows how credible he is. He contunually lists Elvis as most #1s, most golds, etc. Ok, no argument. BUT HE HAS NOT SOLD MORE OVERALL THAN THE BEATLES, END OF STORY. NO CREDIBLE SOURCE SAYS HE HAS.
    When I first read this sight I thought that the Beatles had sold more but wasn’t sure. I have nothing against Elvis, I grew up with him and he is the King.
    However, as I looked up the evidence it is overwhelming. As has been stated numerous times again and again, the 4 organizations that count record sales ALL SAY BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. ALL OF THEM. How do you argue with that?
    I fully understand the RIAA situation.But I also fully believe that the RIAA situation has been resolved with RCAs blessing. As I’ve stated again, RIAA and BMG audited Elvis’ sales. RCA agreed with the results that put Elvis back on top for solo artists—ahead of Garth Brooks. But still 50 MILLION BEHIND THE BEATLES. RCA agreed with these findings. This just happened 4 years ago.
    If you want to continue to argue RIAA ok, but what about Soundscan, Billboard and IFPA? Guinnes book of world records agrees with them.
    Too much evidence.

  118. patricia66 says:

    @Bob,

    Your total figures are not to be found on the Soundscan website where only single album sales are listet. So where is the information from? Is it published anywhere?

  119. patricia66 says:

    gracenote/map does not sound and look like a reliable source for me.

  120. rcmsrw says:

    Patriciaa66 You must not know how to look. I can find Soundscan #s easily and what BOB writes is exactly what they say. In the last 20 years only in the US, the Beatles have sold 60+ million albums, Elvis has sold 32+ million albums.

  121. Simon says:

    Patricia is right, it isn’t reliable at ALL :)
    Neither are all those are named institutions. They led themselves be bedazzled by the flavour of the month artist. Remember they gave Garth Brooks that award… now that was hilarious, I don’t care WHAT you say. Garth Brooks outselling Elvis, that will be the day!

    And the Beatles outselling Elvis is just another big joke. Elvis has sold more than TWICE what the Beatles sold. Billboard statistics don’t lie, look it up.

    Elvis has themost number one singles in the UK, 21, the Beatles 17 and MJ only 7 :)

    Elvis has a record 38 Top Ten singles in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most Top 40 hits 107 in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most weeks at #1 in the US 80
    Elvis has the most consecutive #1 hits(10)in the US
    Elvis has the most consecutive Top Ten hits in the US 30

    Look at those figures and every SANE person will realize that Elvis has indeed sold the most records in popular music. In the real world is the number ONE seller of all time. Live with it Bob and R2D2. Elvis is the King of Pop Music.

  122. Simon says:

    I just love that list, it’s worth repeating it, just as long as any insane Beatles and Whacko Jacko fan realizes the truth: enjoy

    Elvis has themost number one singles in the UK, 21, the Beatles 17 and MJ only 7 :)

    Elvis has a record 38 Top Ten singles in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most Top 40 hits 107 in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most weeks at #1 in the US 80
    Elvis has the most consecutive #1 hits(10)in the US
    Elvis has the most consecutive Top Ten hits in the US 30

  123. Bob says:

    patricia66,

    Those figures were released by Soundsscan at the end of 2009 and published in the mainstream media as well as Billboard and Rolling Stone magazines.

    You can just Google “soundscan best selling artists of the decade” and get the figures.

  124. Bob says:

    Simon,

    More chart facts but no sales figues! You also conveniently omit that The Beatles have 20 #1 singles in the US compared to 18 for Elvis. Also, that The Beatles have 19 #1 albums in the US compared to 10 for Elvis.

    But as I have stated previously they are not sales figures so are irrelevant to this discussion.

    So here are some recent sales figures as provided by Soundscan for sales in the US.

    Sales of Beatles remastered albums from 9 September 2009 to 6 December 2009

    Abbey Road 272,220
    Sgt Pepper 211,856
    White Album (2 discs) 203,452
    Rubber Soul 160,642
    Revolver 138,380
    Past Masters (2 discs) 111,184
    Help 106,568
    Let It Be 98,081
    Magical Mystery Tour 96,081
    A Hard Days Night 93,245
    Please Please Me 73,489
    With The Beatles 67,405
    Beatles For Sale 64,373
    Yellow Submarine 46,460
    Stereo Box Set (16 discs) 112,564
    Mono Box Set (14 discs) 38,219

    TOTAL 1,894,219

    So, The Beatles sold 1,894,219 in the US in less than 3 months accrding to Soundscan.

    However, the RIAA counts the sale of a double album (2 discs) as two sales and the sale of a 16 disc box set as 16 sales.

    Therefore accrding to the RIAA, The Beatles sold 4,246,379 albums in the US in less than 3 months.

    Now, compare that to sales of Elvis 75 in the US from Soundscan. It was released on 8 January 2010.

    Week 1 4,772
    Week 2 10,071
    Week 3 10,134
    Week 4 3,946
    Week 5 2,590

    TOTAL 31,513

    After that it sold less than 2000 per week. So after 3 months Elvis 75 sales would at best be 31,513 + 14,000 = 45,513.

    So, The Beatles in 3 months sold 4,246,379 albums compared to 45,513 albums for Elvis. Again The Beatles massively outsell Elvis.

    That destroys your ridiculous comments about The Beatles not selling any more, and their records not being in shops.

    Lots of people are buying them from somewhere!

    I will provide updated sales figures for The Beatles remasters when I have them. Stay tuned.

  125. Simon says:

    @Bob,

    Not in the REAL world Bob.
    For the upteenth time, Soundscan and the likes are faulty at best, corrupt at worst.

    You don’t REALLY believe those figures you produce do you??? :) I hope not, otherwise I’m wasting my time here with fruitcakes.

    Elvis outsold the Beatles, outsells the Beatles and will always outsell the Beatles. Why? Because he has sold TWICE what the Beatles sold. And they can NEVER catch up on the King. ELVIS has sold close to TWO BILLION records to date, the Beatles roughly 650 MILLION.

    The King outsells the Beatles by more than 2:1
    Probably more like 3:1 by now.
    Give up your hopeless illusion.
    Elvis is the King, and yes also in sales :)

    Elvis is still after almost 33 years the King, the Beatles are passe, nobody buys the Beatles anymore(just check your local Record Store, there IS no Beatles procuct, Elvis IS there).

    Long live the King, have a nice day.
    Have a nice day.

  126. Simon says:

    Elvis has themost number one singles in the UK, 21, the Beatles 17 and MJ only 7 :)

    Elvis has a record 38 Top Ten singles in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most Top 40 hits 107 in the US
    Elvis has the most charted singles 149 in the US
    Elvis has the most weeks at #1 in the US 80
    Elvis has the most consecutive #1 hits(10)in the US
    Elvis has the most consecutive Top Ten hits in the US 30

    The statistics that show any sane person why Elvis is the number one record seller and the King of pop music.

  127. Bob says:

    Hey rcmsrw,

    You are absolutely correct. Simon and Waydown ignore all recognized organisations such as RIAA, Soundscan, IFPI, Billboard etc.

    Your insightful comments are appreciated.

    Just look at Simon’s nonsensical rants at posts 126 and 127. I ignore his ridiculous, unsubstantiated comments and just beat him with sales figures. Waydown also ignores all sales figures and anything that refutes his argument. Gerrad knocked him on the head about Lady Gaga not being banned in Saudi Arabia. They should also check last.fm for listening trends in Australia which shows The Beatles consistently at #1 and Elvis waydown in the 160’s – but they would just ignore those facts.

    It is getting a bit boring and it is like taking candy from a baby, with the same result. I end up with a sweet taste – of victory – in my mouth and they end up bleating.

    It is hard to ignore that The Beatles sold 4,246,379 albums in less than 3 months and Elvis could not sell 50,000 in 3 months – a massive difference.

    As they provide no evidence they have no credibility.

  128. patricia66 says:

    Bob, as I said before, Elvis had more than 10 no. 1 albums on the Billboard charts. Up to this day he has 17 altoghether, i.e. 10 in Billboard Pop plus 7 in Country. Source: Joel Whitburns Billboard chart statistics. According to Joel’s pop chart statistics Elvis is leading and the Beatles are not at all a close second. Elvis had many more songs on the charts which also means he sold a lot.

    I will check the Soundscan figures given for the Beatles since 1991 in comparison to newer artitsts. Then we will see. The Beatles have boosted their sales in the past quite a bit by simply multiplying their albums. Besides, it is odd that they appear only in one year among the top 10 with an album in the Soundscan statistics on the Soundscan homepage (which is the best source). When they are so successful since 1991 with millions of sales, one might think they were up there a lot more.

  129. WayDown says:

    I still can’t understand you Bob and rcmsrw, Garth admitted himself that he didn’t outsold Elvis because of the RIAA’s stupid counting methods and you’re still singing your song. Guys I have respect for you but you must wake up now! Just accept this fact and the debate is closed for good (then we can share our points on music, why not…). Just accept the fact that the Beatles are declared 1st with incomplete counting methods (no singles, no all disk labels, no albums < 3$), no albums < 500000, nothing counted before 1958 (that’s why Sinatra and Crosby are not in the top 5), …

    It’s so difficult for you to admit this?

    Gerrad, Lady Gaga ain’t banned in Saudi Arabia? Are you kidding me? I lived in the Middle East and I know what can be authorized and what can be banned in those countries! 80% of Madonna’s clips were banned in the 80’s and 90’s (imagine Lady Gaga!). Even some MJ clips (each time he touched his balls) were banned in those countries, so please if you don’t know the country don’t give opinion :o) I repeat Bob, Gracenote is not a serious source, I’m not giving just a personal opinion, I know those countries and I can tell you that Elvis can’t be 2nd in Iraq. Respect please what I’m telling you because I really know the Middle East and lived there 15 long years!

    Bob, and other point, you only counted Elvis 75 album (45,513) which was sold as much as one of the Beatles remastered album (Yellow Submarine 46,460). And what about other hundreds of Elvis’ albums which are sold everyday and every hour? Do you have the numbers of that?

  130. WayDown says:

    I still can’t understand you Bob and rcmsrw, Garth admitted himself that he didn’t outsold Elvis because of the RIAA’s stupid counting methods and you’re still singing your song. Guys I have respect for you but you must wake up now! Just accpect this fact and the debate is closed for good (then we can share our points on music, why not…). Just accept the fact that the Beatles are declared 1st with incomplete counting methods, that’s why Sinatra and Crosby are not in the top 5, …

    It’s so difficult for you to admit this?

    Gerrad, Lady Gaga ain’t banned in Saudi Arabia? Are you kidding me? I lived in the Middle East and I know what can be autherised and what can be banned in those countries! 80% of Madonna’s clips were banned in the 80’s and 90’s (imagine Lady Gaga!). Even some MJ clips (each time he touched his balls) were banned in those countries, so please if you don’t know the country don’t give opinion :o) I repeat Bob, gracenote is not a serouis source, I’m not giving just a personal opinion, I know those countries and I can tell you that Elvis can’t be 2nd in Iraq. Respect please what I’m telling you because I really know the Middle East and lived there 15 long years!

    Bob, and other point, you only counted Elvis 75 album (45,513) which was sold as much as one of the Beatles remastered album (Yellow Submarine 46,460). And what about other hundreds of Elvis’ albums which are sold everyday and every hour? Do you have the numbers of that?

  131. Bob says:

    Hey patricia66,

    The Beatles have 19 #1 albums on the Billboard pop charts. Elvis has 10. Those 7 that made #1 on the country charts did not make #1 on the pop charts. The pop charts include all genres of music (rock, pop, country, dance etc) whereas the country charts do not include any other genre.

    According to Soundscan, The Beatles have sold 60 million albums in the US since 1991. They are #2 behind Garth Brooks who has sold 68 million.

    According to Soundscan, The Beatles sold 30,182,000 albums in the US from 2000-2009 to be #2 behind Eminem who sold 32,241,000, compared to Elvis who sold 16,486,000.

    The Beatles according to Soundscan had the topselling album of the last decade (2000-2009). Their 1 album sold 11,564,000 to be #1 for 2000-2009.

    Pop chart statistics show that Elvis was extremely successful, but they are not sales figures and do not prove that he sold more than The Beatles. All independent audited sales figures show The Beatles outsold Elvis.

    Since 1991 The Beatles back catalogue consistently has sold about 2 million copies a year. Other new releases such as 1 (11.5 million), Live at the BBC, Anthology 1,2 & 3, Love, Let It Be Naked sold millions each. The total for The Beatles is 60 million+ from 1991 compared to 32 million+ for Elvis.

  132. Gerrad says:

    @Waydown
    Where do you get the idea that it’s my own opinion that Lady Gaga isn’t banned in Saudi Arabia? Just because her videos are banned doesn’t mean that her music is. Also, countries changes to, for example Saudi Arabia recently had there first all female rockband, who have a hit song I might add.

  133. WayDown says:

    “Since 1991 The Beatles back catalogue consistently has sold about 2 million copies a year”? That’s nothing !
    In 2005 alone, Elvis sold in excess of 800,000 singles and 200,000 albums in the United Kingdom only! 1 million in 2005 only for UK sales! That’s impressing! Oh I forgot again that singles are not counted ! Merde alors !

  134. WayDown says:

    The Top Pop Singles (sales) that went Gold and better were:
    1. Elvis Presley (24 Gold & 28 Platinum)
    2. The Beatles (18 Gold & 6 Platinum)
    3. Whitney Houston (14 Gold & 6 Platinum)
    4. Janet Jackson (16 Gold & 3 Platinum)
    5. Elton John (13 Gold & 6 Platinum)

    Houps! I forgot again! No singles are counted by RIAA :o(

  135. rcmsrw says:

    Waydown, I do accept the fact of the RIAA counting methods. Why do you not accept the fact that they along with BMG audited their results against these items you mention. This brought Elvis’ total to a higher level and put him past Garth Brooks, BUT STILL 50 MILLION BEHIND THE BEATLES. WHY CAN’T YOU EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THIS??? It’s a matter of public record. RCA agrees with the current number that RIAA puts out. If they agree with it, then you should too. But if you don’t it doesn’t matter, the people that do matter do agree with the figures.
    Simon contunues to put out rubbish. Comments, opinions. He keeps listing Elvis records but continues to ignore authenticated numbers. I wouldn’t want him on my debate team that’s for sure. You can’t win with opinions.

  136. patricia66 says:

    Hi Bob, you are wrong in your estimation that Pop charts are of higher value than other charts like R&B, Country and Adult Contemporary where Elvis had no 1s. Elvis was a true crossover artist which the Beatles were not. Besides, what about extremely successful artists that are pure Country like Garth Brooks?

    I checked how the SoundScan statistics are achieved. They do not gather any sales apart from the shops that are part of their system, i.e. all sales that are done for instance through Elvis collectors label Follow That Dream (very busy with around 8 publishing per year containing previously unreleased takes) or Graceland or on the vast bootleg/import market are not in the count because these are distributed differently (not to be found in record stores). Thus, SoundScan alone is a limited approach to estimate the value of an artist like Elvis, it catches only reissue boxes like Elvis 75. There are two very different distribution ways for Elvis product: rather expensive collectors CD boxes that are designed for collectors (not counted by SoundScan) plus stuff for the casusal admirer (mass market shops). The collectors market is where the money is in – there is the reason why Elvis is always among the top artist on Forbes dead celebrity list without any rights (like publishing rights) being sold. That is amazing in itself. John Lennon does not come near Elvis there.

    If you were right, the industry wouldn’t put Elvis up on the top everytime a benchmark for sales success is needed!

    I tried to check your Beatles overall SoundScan figures but couldn’t verify anything that accumulates to 30,182,000 though I found that 1 is among the overall most successful albums with 11,564,000 of 1991 – 2009. But again, this is just one album,

  137. Simon says:

    @Bob and R2D2

    This is a very interesting article, written by a Beatles fan and expert. Even he admits Elvis far outsells Elvis, why can’t you 2 see the truth? :)

    “Those claiming that EMI have in past said that the Beatles have sold a Billion do not understand that this was a totally flippant and unsubstantiated comment by a low level EMI Operative. Neither EMI nor any senior representative have ever made nor substantiated such a claim. RCA though have made such a claim for Elvis after much independent research.

    To support all claims you need to start of with the RIAA statistics. The RIAA report on certificated sales, this is not the same as actual sales.

    In the case of the Beatles this is 170m albums and for Elvis 120M in the USA, extrapolating this on a 40/60 USA/World bases you would get 425M and 300M for the Beatles and Elvis. What is absolutely certain is that you cannot get to a billion for either of them based on this.
    Now it gets interesting, firstly the Beatles entire catalogue is covered by the RIAA, so we don’t have uncertified sales issue for them.
    For instance, the following situations simply does not apply to the Beatles or any other artist, they do for Elvis.
    1. Because of the large number of Elvis albums with certification categories there are about 60M of uncounted RIAA sales.
    2. There are some 300 uncertified Elvis albums; 40 million is a modest estimation here.
    3. There are at least 30 million of sales that do not meet the RIAA’s certification criteria.
    4. There are estimated to be 40 millions of sales through special licensing arrangements not counted by the RIAA.
    5. There are 10’s of millions not included in the count in the year following Elvis’s death, this is no exaggeration. The Guinness world records report 20 million sold in the first few days after his death and Billboard confirmed and reported that RCA’s entire output was devoted to Elvis records for many months after his death.

    You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Elvis has at least double the album sales of the Beatles in the USA. Then you add the singles, there is no competition here. You extrapolate this on an international basis and you can get to a over a Billion for Elvis. But you will not be able to get beyond 700 M even being generous for the Beatles.
    That the Beatles are great is in no doubt, but Elvis is still the King.”

    Even sane Beatles fans acknowledge Elvis to be the number one overall and yes also in sales. Bob and R2D2 you two must be fruitcakes.
    Have a nice day knowing Elvis is the REAL King :)

  138. Simon says:

    Soundscan and the likes are corrupt to the bone.
    Hey Bob, I am still not being sued by them, you think they agree with me then?

  139. patricia66 says:

    Elvis vs The Beatles

    I really hate to do this for I may be a die hard Elvis fans but I do like The Beatles too ;-).

    Overview about the Beatles sales in the US between 1964 and 2008 (source: David Kronemyer, former Vice President of Capitol Records, April 2009)

    1964 – 1985:
    75,000,000 (Millions rounded)

    Estimated sales between 1986 – 1990
    7,500,000 (Millions rounded)

    1991 – 2008:
    57,000,000 (Millions rounded)

    Beatles total 1964 – 2008 in the US: 139,000,000 (rounded again: 200,000,000)

    Summary of Elvis US Sales 1954-2008 (Millions rounded)
    RIAA certified sales:
    170,000,000
    Sales currently awaiting RIAA certification:
    10,000,000
    Sales above/between certification levels: 60,000,000
    Sales below RIAA minimum certification levels: 55,000,000
    Sun / RCA / Pickwick sales:
    45,000,000
    Excluded or disqualified RIAA sales:
    20,000,000 (Aloha + Christmas album)
    Estimated sales under licence:
    40,000,000

    Total: 400,000,000

    Source: Nick Keene, May 2009

    According to professionals in the music business the market share of the US in worldwide sales is approx. 40%, 60% for the rest of the world. If you take this into consideration,

    Elvis sold 1 Billion records worldwide between 1954 – 2008 whereas The Beatles sold 500,000,000 Million records worldwide 1964 – 2008.

    Elvis leads even if you consider him being around 10 years longer.

    The reason why Bob stresses the later decades sales in the US is that The Beatles catalogue is gaining strength in the U.S. – a market that is clearly saturated with Elvis product but not with Beatles product. Besides, the Beatles catalogue is reissued now which happened with the Elvis catalogue in the 1990 with the 50s, 60s and 70s boxes which went Platinum many times even in the US – check RIAA certifications.

    With regard to Elvis: From the 1970s onward almost 3 out of 4 sold discs were sold outside the US (which is even more than the 60/40 share) – 12 million out of 16 million of ELV1S 30 #1 Hits’ were sold outside the States and the 2003 release ‘2nd to None’ has likewise sold three copies overseas for each one sold in the USA – where it has long since gone platinum. Same with the ‘Elvis The King’ compilation 2007. What both – Elvis and The Beatles – have in common is that they are more successful outside their home market, i.e, Elvis has more no. 1 hits in United Kingdom than The Beatles, whereas The Beatles have more than Elvis in the US Pop charts.

    With regard to the charts: chart positions do say something about sales because they derive from sales and airplay.

  140. patricia66 says:

    Gee, I really made a mistake in favor of the Beatles in my last post. Their rounded Millions are 140,000,000 and NOT 200,000,000 with regard to the US sales.

    According the 40/60 market share the Beatles sold 350,000,000 worldwide between 1964 and 2008 and NOT 500,000,000 as said above.

  141. Simon says:

    @Patricia,

    I’m glad we all got that cleared up now, if Bob and R2D2 STILL believe the Beatles sold more than Elvis I’ll eat my hat.

  142. Bob says:

    Hey patricia66,

    Elvis does not have 170 million certified sales in the US. The figure is 120 million certified sales. Those figures by Kronemyer equate to 170,000,000 million sales when double albums are counted.

    Nick Keane’s figures are totally discredited, being based on assumptions and the false figure of 170 million accrdited sales. Eat your hat Simon!

    Will give a more comprehensive reply when I get time in the next day or so.

  143. WayDown says:

    Gerrad, please make a trip to Saudi Arabia (even in 2010) and you will understand why they can’t diffuse Lady Gaga’s music and at the same time you will understand that gracenote/map is full of bull. I’m an Elvis fan but I have enough culture to admit that the King can’t be 2nd most diffused artist in Iraq, he’s not even in the top 20 !

    rcmsrw, I know that BMG audited their results against and this brought Elvis’ total to a higher level and put him past Garth Brooks, BUT he’s STILL 50 MILLION BEHIND THE BEATLES. I agree with this but I know also that no singles are counted, and no all disk labels are counted, and more more no counted things that I mentioned 100 times. So YES, the Beatles are first with the actual counting methods. Imagine rcmsrw how this list is wrong, only by adding the singles, the entire ranking will change. Sinatra and Crosby will enter in the top 5, and may be Elvis will take the pole position. You will never know the real ranking as while as all the stuff is not counted (specially singles). So once again, the Beatles are first with the actual incomplete counting methods. Even Garth himself understood this !

    Nice comments patricia66, I hate Elvis vs Beatles debate too, because both were giants and brought so much to the pop music.

  144. WayDown says:

    With only one single (it’s now or never), Elvis will jump from 120 million to 145 million! This proves how much this ranking in incomplete…

  145. Bob says:

    patricia66,

    I think it is you who are wrong about the number of #1 albums for Elvis in the US. On the Billboard Top 200 chart he has 10 #1’s as opposed to 19 for The Beatles.

    The Billboard Top 200 chart is all encompassing. For example take this week’s Billboard Top 200 chart. At #1 is Raymond v Raymond by Usher. At #1 on the country chart is Need your own by Lady Antebellum, which also appears at #5 on the Billboard Top 200 chart.

    Therefore if you are #1 on the country chart it does not mean you are #1 on the Billboard Top 200 album chart. However if you are a country artist and get to #1 on the Billboard 200 album chart you are also #1 on the country chart. Therefore Elvis may have had 7 #1’s on the country chart but they did nit reach #1 on the Billboard Top 200 album chart.

    Will respond tomorrow about Nick Keene and his fallacious arguments.

  146. Simon says:

    WayDown Says:

    April 9th, 2010 at 3:34 am
    With only one single (it’s now or never), Elvis will jump from 120 million to 145 million! This proves how much this ranking in incomplete…

    And yet some people cling on to the ‘official’ stats provided by corrupt organizations as Soundscan for dear life. We all know why….if everything was counted as it should be Elvis would devastate all those absurd figures.

    Elvis Presley has sold most records of any artists any time. He’s been screwed a lot during his lifetime and Soundscan and the likes are still screwing him. End of discussion. Elvis is number one. Elvis is the King of Pop Music.

  147. Bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    Those 2 million catalogue sales per annum for The Beatles is in the US. 2 million x 20 years = 40 million and when added to new releases such as 1 (11.5 million), Anthology 1,2 & 3 (9 million or so), Let it Be Naked, Love etc it adds up to 60 million album sales since 1991 according to Soundscan.

    Elvis by contrast sells about 1-1.2 million catalogue albums per annum in the US and when added to new releases such as 30 #1’s, 2nd to none etc it adds up to 32 million since 1991 according to Soundscan. That 32 million includes all those hundreds sold everyday that you mentioned.

    The Beatles remasters sold over 4 million in less than 3 months whilst the new Elvis release (Elvis 75) sold less that 50,000 in 3 months in the same market – the US.

  148. rcmsrw says:

    Patricia66. Not sure where you get your info. Especially the 170 million certified for Elvis. It is 120 certified by RIAA. Please look it up. It seems you refuse to acknowledge RIAA. Checkout RIAA, IFPA, Billboard and Soundscan. Every one of them gives higher numbers for the Beatles. Everyone. Period. End of story. These are the 4 worldwide orgs that count record sales. Nick Keenes figures are discredited, based on assumptions. Again, look at the 4 major sources. THEY ALL GIVE TOTAL FIGURES IN THE BEATLES FAVOR. How can you argue with a source like Keene when again and again the 4 worldwide orgs that count sales all say the Beatles have sold more. How can you argue that? As has also been stated, the Guinness Book of World Records acknowledges these worldwide orgs and list the Beatles as the highest selling artist of all time. THERE’S WAY TOO MUCH EVIDENCE

  149. rcmsrw says:

    Waydown, I see what you’re saying but you have to remember one thing. RCA has publically acknowledged RIAAs numbers as being correct. They not only acknowledge it, they publically proclaimed it. RCA, this is Elvis own record label acknowledges RIAAs numbers which put the Beatles 50 million ahead. So, you can keep saying your theory, Patricia can quote this Keenes guy, Simon can give his giberish, but Elvis’ own label says the Beatles have sold more. Publically.
    Oh and the IFPA, the International Federation of Phonographic Artists, just awarded the Beatles as the highest selling artist of all time.
    Don’t forget Soundscan. They say in just the last 20 years, the Beatles have sold 30 million more than Elvis. Only one other artist has sold more than the Beatles in the last 20 years. Talk about staying power. I think Elvis was 15th or so.
    Oh and Billboard. You’ve heard of them? They’ve been around what 70 years? Some consider Billboard THE AUTHORITY. Oh, yeah, they say the Beatles have sold the most too.

    HHMMMMMM. Who should we believe?

  150. Simon says:

    R2D2 you are so wrong. You mention Billboard, some days ago I put an article here from Billboard that stated that Elvis is the best selling artist ever. Can’t you read properly? Maybe you should lend Lennon’s glasses to read the proof that Elvis sold the most, without a shadow of a doubt.

    I understand you are desperate and are talking nonsense but stay in the real world please. Elvis has sold at least TWICE as much as the Beatles. He is simply the king in everything, accept it, your life will be so much easier.

    Have a happy.

  151. Simon says:

    And I forgot, you mentioned Elvis’ record company, I also stated here a couple of days ago that Sony fully acknowledges that Elvis has sold the most.
    As if any sane person wouldn’t know that fact already, but anyway that’s what they say. Try to find some glasses and read what everybody but you and Bob can’t seem to grasp. ELVIS HAS SOLD most. Not your precious boys, enjoy that fact. Elvis vs. the Beatles 2:1
    They don’t call him the King for nothing :)

  152. Gerrad says:

    @Simon
    I can’t really find an billboard article that says Elvis is the best selling act of all time. Though they say he is the best selling SOLO artist.

  153. Simon says:

    @Gerrad,

    Here it is again then:

    “According to the Billboard Charts, the bible of the recording industry, Elvis Presley far SURPASSES his contemporaries. In addition to his unprecedented top ten singles (38), he has the most charted singles (149), the most top 40 hits(107), and a few other achievements. Most weeks at #1(80), most consecutive #1 hits(10) and (30) consecutive top ten hits. Need we say more?
    (Billboard Magazine, Billboard Chart Information provided by Joel Whitburn’s Record Research Publications)

  154. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Your post #154 does not say that Elvis is the biggest selling artist – it does not mention sales figures but just mentions chart facts.

    Gerrad is right, Billboard recognises Elvis as the biggest selling SOLO artist of all time. To the best of my knowledge Billboard recognises The Beatles as the biggest selling artists of all time.

    You continually confuse sales figures with chart figures – they are separate entities.

  155. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Your post #138 is false. That article is not by a Beatles fan or an expert but is a blog by someone who goes by the moniker of Judah S. He is an avid Elvis fan. He has even posted on this site.

    To see his blog just Google “Now it gets interesting, firstly The Beatles”. His contribution is the 15th comment and is underneath “Judah S wrote at 2009-04-27 21:15:52”.

    Judah S is not an expert and does not provide any evidence to support his contentions.

    So Simon by misrepresenting Judah S as an expert you have totally destroyed your credibility and shown how desperate you are. And you say RIAA and Soundscan are corrupt.

    All independently audited sales figures show The Beatles to be the biggest selling artists of all time.

  156. bob says:

    Hey patricia66,

    I refer to your post #140.

    The Kronemyer figures are accurate except perhaps for the period 1985-1991, but overall that figure of 140 million is fairly accurate. RIAA counts double albums as 2 sales and that takes that figure to 170 million as per the RIAA.

    Now let us examine the Elvis figures by Nick Keene.

    The first question is who is Nick Keene?

    Nick Keene is actually part of Elvis Presley Australia – The official Elvis Presley fan club. He may actually be it’s president but I am not 100% sure of that.

    He is therefore not coming from an objective perspective. Also his “sales figures” are provided by RCA and BMG (as stated on the Elvis Information Network) who also have a vested interest in Elvis being the biggest selling artist – and their audited figures come to 120 million as agreed by RCA/BMG and the RIAA.

    But let us examine Keene’s figures.

    RIAA certified sales 170,000,000. This is false. The RIAA figure as stated many times by rcmsrw and myself is 120 million. It can be checked on the RIAA website. Not a promising start!

    Sales currently awaiting RIAA certification : 10,000,000. Keene provides no evidence for this and as this article was written in May 2009 I am sure that RCA/BMG would have had these sales certified if they had the proof. There was a rumour of a big announcement for the 75th anniversary of Elvis’ birth but nothing was forthcoming.

    Sales above/between certification : 60,000,000. Again Keene provides no evidence and given his track record on the false RIAA certification numbers I am not prepared to accept this figure without solid supporting evidence.

    Sales below minimum certification levels : 55,000,000.
    Again no evidence is provided and so this figure cannot be accepted without supporting evidence.

    Sun, RCA, Pickwick sales : 45,000,000 – again no evidence and given Keene’s inability to get the RIAA certification figures correct I cannot accept these unproven numbers.

    Excluded or disqualified RIAA sales : 20,000,000. Again no proof is given and RIAA has its rules which like it or not all record companies have to abide by.

    Estimated sales under licence : 40,000,000. Again no proof and Keene’s credibility is suspect due to false RIAA figures.

    Sure, Elvis has sales in between accreditation levels as do all artists (including The Beatles whose album 1 is over 11,589,000 at February 2010 – so they have 589,000 missing sales from that album alone). If Elvis sells as many albums as Waydown and Simon say these in between albums should quickly go to the next certification level. This article was written a year ago and no such movement has taken place.

    So patricia66 I think Nick Keen’s figures are flawed and given his close connection to the Elvis fan club his objectivity is questionable. I will settle for the independently audited figures of RIAA and Soundscan and the authoritative statements of Billboard, Rolling Stone, IFPI and Guinness. They are not pro Elvis or pro Beatles but are independent.

    Those Kronemyer figures for The Beatles can be broken down by decade as follows:

    1960’s 32,514,816
    1970’s 30,413,129
    1980’s 17,858,890
    1990’s 30,188,000 (1990 plus half of 1991 to be added)
    2000’s 30,182,000

    At least 141,158,835 albums sold in the US to date. Factoring in double albums that exceeds 170 million as measured by the RIAA.

    I would like to see the Elvis figures decade by decade because I cannot see that Elvis outsold The Beatles in any decade from 1960-2010.

    patricia66, I think you should be wary of figures emanating from record companies and fan clubs.

  157. Simon says:

    @Bob,

    That article was sent to me by someone, stating it was from a Beatles expert and fan, if that’s not true, it does not reflect on me. And you say my credibility is destroyed, that’s rich, as you were posting here also as a Charles, trying to reap havoc here!

    Billboard states Elvis as the number one seller, Billboard is like the bible in the music world, and they are right. And I will repeat it once more Bob, especially for you, Soundscan and the likes are corrupt, and STILL I am not being sued Bob! That must tell you something :)

    Every sane person knows Elvis sold most records.
    And you keep saying about those charts not being like sales. How do you think those lists are compiled for crying out loud, not just by airplay!

    Elvis holds all the records in the US and UK charts, same with almost every other country. He is simply the most sold artist in the world. If you and R2D2 can’t/won’t believe that, well….that is your problem.

    Everyone else knows and believes that of course Elvis has sold most. There never was any question really :)
    Enjoy your weekend.

  158. Simon says:

    Ernst Jorgensen wrote this:

    •Brookville Record sales cannot at present be certified (7 x platinum – 2 albums)
    •Another 5 to 7 million sales of Pickwick releases cannot be fully certified. Numbers are known, but they come from an audit report and not from actual sales accounting
    •Missing sales info on pre computer sales
    •Missing international sales reports. Elvis was not with RCA in many countries
    •Missing SUN sales figures (small numbers I know, but!!!)
    •About 400 U.S. album releases (RCA, Special products and more) all between one of other level of certification. RIAA only counts full millions. So if any album sold 1.999,999, it still counts as 1 million – you can try and multiply 400 by whatever average you think is mathematically realistic.

    Just those 400 album sales that haven’t been counted put Elvis way ahead above the Beatles. Even if all those 400 albums sold only 500.000 copies each (very conservative) that’s 200 million!!!!!

    Elvis devastates the Beatles. If only Soundscan and all those other corrupt entities worked along, ah well, we live in an imperfect world. But at least a world that fully realizes that Elvis Presley dwarfs any other artist!

  159. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Ernst Jorgensen is not an independent commentator. He is heavily involved with the Elvis Presley industry. It is convenient that Elvis has so many “missing” sales. Why can’t the Pickwick sales be accredited by the RIAA? Obviously they do not have any proof of those sales. All RIAA accreditations have to be independently audited – that is where RCA/BMG come unstuck.

    Billboard states Elvis is the biggest selling SOLO artist – not the biggest selling artist. That title they give to The Beatles.

    Simon, I did not pose as Charles.

    An example of the rubbish you speak Simon. You state Elvis holds all the records in the US and UK charts. That is wrong. The Beatles have the most #1 singles in the US and the most #1 albums in the US and in the UK. So 3 out of 4 of the most important records are held by The Beatles.

    Why do you state such rubbish? That proves your lack of credibility.

    They are chart facts and there are no sales figures specified so they ultimately prove nothing.

    As I have consistently stated : On all independent audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists.

    It basically comes down to who you want to believe; organisations who have their sales figures independently audited or organisations that do not have their sales figures independently audited.

    I believe the independently audited organisations.

  160. patricia66 says:

    @Bob
    Have you actually read what Nick Keene wrote in detail? He is not part of the administration of the Elvis Australia Fanclub, neither is he the president of the club. But you are right his article was published on this website although it has a lot of content that Elvis fans naturally do not like, i.e. he says very clearly that Elvis sales (unfortunately, because there was no need for it) have been boosted by RCA in the past – as it was done with the Beatles and – most prominently – with the MJ sales figures (in case of MJ the ominious 750 Million sales go back to a PR person who was on MJs paycheck). Keene states that the 1,8 Billion sales figure for Elvis that you find on the Internet is not very likely at all, even the 1,5 Billion figure claimed by RCA on one of the DVD boxes can’t be proven. It’s amazing that even Ernst Jorgensen who is in charge of Elvis music legacy since the late 80s (and does a great job!) says that the marketing people of RCA published peculiar sales figures expecially in the beginning of the 1980s when a guy called Don Wardell claimed that Elvis sold more than 1 Billion up to then. When BMG took over RCA in the late 1980s they couldn’t find any proof for it – Jorgensen is very open about that, as open as Kronemyer is with the Beatles sales ;-).

    Elvis worldwide sales per decade (no bootlegs etc):
    until 1959: 50 Million
    1964/65: 125 Million
    1970: 250 Million
    1976: 400 Million
    (source: Keene)

    With regard to Elvis albums: During the first part of Elvis career album sales were generally a lot lower than single or extended play sales. This simply had to do with the economic situation back then. Up to the middle 1960s only 14 out of 100 Million sold units by Elvis were album sales. That is one of the reasons why there are almost no concept albums by Elvis (apart from Christmas and Gospel albums, btw. Elvis holds RIAAs record for the most sold Christmas album), he came from a single era.

    From the middle sixties onward the album became more important, people could afford it. The Beatles are known for their concept albums and they are marketed that way up to this day. Elvis published 711 different songs during his lifetime (alternative takes etc. not counted) and he was a crossover artist (pop, r&b, r&r, country, gospel), he was and is marketed a lot different than The Beatles simply because of this fact. His material can be reissued in an abundance of different box sets which was and is done (not always in an intelligent way I must admit). Every year there are around 100 new Elvis music publications, legal and illegal ones. A lot of this is not distributed through the big retail shops that are SoundScan’s only source which is a limited approach because they concentrate on just one distribution channel. You can clearly see that when you compare the sales of RIAA with those of SoundScan. RIAA collects what whas shipped minus what came back unsold, i.e. they have a broader approach with regard to distribution channels. Conclusion: When Elvis is up there at the top of RIAA statistics (even though a lot of his stuff is not counted according RIAA rules) but is “only” no. 15 in the SoundScan era, it tells you that a lot of his units are not distributed through the 14,000 big retailers that are the only basis of SoundScan. In case of The Beatles it is obviously different. All of this has to do with the recording history of these artists, the marketing and distribution strategies applied in the past, strategies that have consequences for the presence simply because of the structure of the fanbase asf. I said it before, comparing Elvis and The Beatles is like comparing apples and organges.

    Back to the charts. You remarked in one of your earlier posts that the Pop charts are the only really relevant charts and therefore show who is/was most popular and in consequence sold more. This again is a very limited approach usually done by people who like to boost Pop artists. Garth Brooks for example has 19 no.1 albums on Billboard’s country charts and none on the Pop charts. And who is RIAA most successful solo artist according to sales today? Garth Brooks. In fact Garth Brook’s chart positions in Country in comparison to Pop resemble a lot Elvis’ from 1973 onward when he was very successful in Country and less in the Pop charts.

    Elvis starting out in a single era and being a crossover artist is reflected in his chart positions:

    * 17 different no. 1 albums in Billboard’s Pop, Country and Christmas charts up to this day, 15 up to his death (sorry, I forgot the most successful Christmas album of all time in my last count)
    * 16 no.1 Extended Plays on the Extended Play charts (these didn’t appear on the album charts)
    * 18 no. 1 songs on the Pop charts
    * 11 no. 1s on Country
    * 7 no. 1s on Adult Contemporay
    * 5 no. 1s on Rhythm & Blues

    The Beatles in comparison:

    ** 20 no. 1 songs on the Pop charts
    ** 2 no. 1 songs on Adult Contemporary
    ** none on Country
    ** none on R&B
    ** couldn’t find any Extended Play no. 1s

  161. patricia66 says:

    Waydown:
    Nice comments patricia66, I hate Elvis vs Beatles debate too, because both were giants and brought so much to the pop music.

    Thanks Waydown.

  162. patricia66 says:

    @Gerard

    Elvis is listed as the leading top artist of the 500 most successful artists between 1955 and 2008 with regard to the Billboard Pop charts in Joel Whitburn’s:
    Top Pop singles, 2009, page 1295. The Beatles are second with Elvis being very much in the lead. Elton John is third, I said it before. It’s a fact and published in an up-to-date publication.

  163. patricia66 says:

    On the website of IFPI there is no statistic to be found that says that The Beatles are leading. It shows simply statistics of the most sold albums per year within the last decade. There the Beatles are listed only with one album, the same for Elvis. How do you explain that the source some of you refer as THE reliable source does not mention what you claim to be a fact? Same with the Nielsen Soundscan page. You claim I rely on questionable sources, where are your primary sources with regard to those two? Only the RIAA page gives detailed statistics.

    Until I came up with the Beatles having about max. 350,000,000 Million sales worldwide (Kronemyer source) you kept claiming it’s over 1 Billion. Then you had to admit it’s far less ;-).

  164. bob says:

    patricia66,

    I have never used chart figures as they do not give a specific measure of sales. I only mention some chart figures to disprove various statements of contributors to this site. According to Joel Whitburn’s methodology Elvis is the most successful chart performer. I agree with that, but that does not mean he is the biggest selling artist.

    A simple example should suffice. If artist A has 75 top 40 albums which each sell 2 million copies, that gives artist A 150 million sales. If artist B has 25 top 40 albums which each sell 10 million copies that equates to 250 million sales. According to Joel Whitburn artist A would be the most successful chart performer but NOT the biggest selling artist.

    Now, Elvis has more top 40 albums than The Beatles, but The Beatles have 6 diamond awards (10 million sales). Those albums are:

    White album 19 million
    67-70 16 million
    62-66 15 million
    Abbey Rd 12 million
    Sgt Pepper 11 million
    1 11 million

    6 albums selling 84 million. The biggest selling Elvis album in the US is a Christmas album with 9 million plus sales. His top 6 albums would have sold about 30 million. The fact that Elvis has more top 40 albums than The Beatles does not mean he has sold more. That is the point I continually make.

    RIAA and Soundscan have measurement methods which are accepted by the recording industry and are recognized within and without the industry. When it comes to Nick Keene’s bona fides I am far less certain, and am unwilling to accept his figures as he provides no proof. What is his source for those decade figures you quoted?

    I am surprised you cannot get the Soundscan figures. They may not be on the Soundscan website but they have been made public by Soundscan.

    There are two options:

    Contact Soundscan direct. They will confirm them.

    Or, you can Google “best selling artists in Soundscan era”. Or you can Google “Mariah Carey 3rd best selling act in Soundscan era”. This will give you figures as of September 2008. All you need to do is a bit of searching.

    For the IFPI figures you can Google “150 best selling artists in the world”.

    Patricia66, you mention the Kronemyer figures as if they are a revelation. I mentioned those figures in my post #311 on page 1 of this site on March 11 2010. Those figures are confirmation of the RIAA figures of 170 million albums sold in the US. I have never claimed The Beatles have sold a billion. Please read my second post #68 on July 9 2009 where I say that sales of more than a billion for The Beatles or Elvis are record company hype. On my post #245 on page 1 of this site I say that no recording artist has sold a billion albums. At post #254 I repeat that statement. It may be in your interest to read the entire site. If not please read my posts:
    #67,68,70,82,83,98,101,103,105,108,110,117,135,137,228,231,233,236,239,242,245,252,254,285,311,319,326,329. They provide a consistent thread of sales figures and no chart figures.

    In summary, the bona fides of the RIAA and Soundscan are accepted by the recording industry. The bona fides of Nick Keene – even though he has tempered the previous outrageous sales figures of RCA – are uncertain. I question his figures.

    See my post #82 of 15 July 2009 where I give the Guinness figures for The Beatles and Elvis as of September 1970. They are:

    The Beatles sold 133 million discs (74 million singles, 3 million EP’s, 56 million albums) representing 416 million in singles equivalents.

    Elvis sold 130 million discs representing 275 million singles equivalents. So that figure of Keene’s is accurate if measuring singles equivalents but Keene is not specificas to what those figures are. The Beatles are way ahead even then. According to Guinness The Beatles sold 545 million singles equivalents (units) by June 1972, more than 700 million units (more than 100 million albums and 100 million singles )by the end of 1978 and more than 1000 million (1 billion) by May 1984.

    They surpass those figures by Keene which are unsourced.

    1 EP equals 2 singles
    1 album equals 6 singles

    In summary:

    On all audited figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. This is what I have consistently said since my first post #67 on July 9 2009. I have provided my sources which are Soundscan, RIAA, IFPI, Billboard, Guinness.

    Chart figures do not specify actual sales figures but do reflect the success of an artist.

  165. Simon says:

    @Bob,

    You really take the cake. When we present facts and figures here that clearly state that Elvis sold most, you call them all dubious etc.

    The companies you so eagerly use as Soundscan, THEY are the ones that are dubious! And Patricia dared you to come up with the figures you constantly mention, but you still haven’t produced them.

    We on the other hand have shown you overwhelmingly evidence that prove beyond all suspicion that SO many sales of Elvis’ haven’t taken into equation, if all those records WERE counted Elvis comes up trunks.

    But every sane person in this world recognizes anyway that Elvis the King is without a shadow of a doubt the best selling artist ever. It just amuses me that only you and R2D2 don’t believe it. Keep it up. We all can use a good laugh.

    Elvis, the best selling artist of all time. Sold more than TWICE what the Beatles sold. Now that shows why they still call him the King.

  166. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    You are wrong again. I have provided those figures. Please read my post #228 & #326 on page 1 of this site. All the Soundscan figures are there.

    The IFPI figures are at post #137 on page 1 of this site.

    patricia66 stated she could not find those figures on Soundscan’s website or the IFPI website, so I provided her with Google links.

    The figures provided by Nick Keene are unsourced and in my mind are highly questionable. Do those figures refer to albums, albums and singles or singles equivalents? If they refer to albums or albums and singles I think they are exaggerated – Keene has provided no supporting evidence. As he got his information from RCA/BMG – they can hardly be called unbiased – and have a history of exaggerating Elvis’ sales. The RCA/BMG figures have not been independently audited. The RCA/BMG figures that have been independently audited come to 120 million album sales in the US.

    The only independently audited figures (RIAA and Soundscan) have The Beatles as the biggest selling artists. If Keene is referring to singles equivalents then The Beatles are still way ahead. See my post #82 for the Guinness figures re singles equivalents (units).

    I have consistently stated that on independent audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

    So Simon, do yourself a favour and read the posts I suggested to patricia66.

    Simon, you have not provided any evidence of sales figures.

  167. WayDown says:

    rcmsrw and Bob, can you give me please 1 reliable source about singles sold by Elvis and the Beatles? If you can’t then this debate is getting stupid. How can you rank people when all the stuff is not counted !

    rcmsrw, you’re not telling me the truth. RCA always said that Elvis is the best selling artist all time. They did efforts to find sales which were not not captured by RIAA to increase his sales, but still that was not enough to take the pole position. But RCA is still saying (with proofs that you can find easaly) that Elvis is the best selling artist because all the stuff was STILL not counted (I will no longer explain you in details because you don’t want to admit the truth about counting methods).

    Just meditate on this. RIAA told Garth that he’s the best selling solo artist and Garth said NO I’M NOT ! Just meditate why Garth did not accept that title. Because comparing to you 2, Garth know that with only his singles sales, Elvis can beat him, and thanks to Garth he was enough humble to admit the truth, I’m sure MJ would not have the same reaction.

    “It’s now or never” : 25 million
    “A Fool Such As I”/”I Need Your Love Tonight” : 5 million
    “All Shook Up” : 5 million
    “Are You Lonesome Tonight?” : 5 million
    “Hound Dog” : 9 million
    “Jailhouse Rock” : 5 million
    “Love Me Tender”/”Any Way You Want Me” : 5 million
    “Surrender” : 5 million
    “Good Luck Charm” : 5 million
    “Return To Sender” : 5 million
    “Suspicious Minds” : 5 million
    “Teddy Bear” : 5 million
    “Way Down” : 5 million
    “Elvis vs JXL” : ? million
    “Burning love” ? million

    This debate is getting really stupid ! How can we compare an album seller with a single seller by counting only albums !

  168. bob says:

    Hey Waydown,

    What is your source for those singles figures? They must be worldwide figures and look inflated.

    On my post #239 I gave figures for singles in the UK and Worldwide (US, Europe, Japan & Australia). The singles sales figures are:

    Worldwide figures:

    Elvis 120.10 million
    Beatles 119.39 million

    Source : Fan of Music Website

    UK Singles figures

    Cliff Richard 21.31 million
    Elvis Presley 20.91 million
    The Beatles 20.82 million

    Source : Official Charts Company

    In my humble opinion they are both reliable sources.

  169. rcmsrw says:

    Sorry, Waydown but I am telling the truth. 4 years ago, RCA called a press conference at Graceland. At that press conference with RIAA and BMG present, RCA said” Today we are presenting figures from an audit by RIAA and BMG that has confirmed that Elvis is the biggest selling SOLO artist of all time. They went on, we are proud to present these new numbers that put Elvis where he rightfully belongs. They then showed the new numbers, which gave Elvis more gold recores and a higher total quantity. The numbers presented show Elvis 50 million behing the Beatles. Didn’t make it up Waydown.

  170. rcmsrw says:

    First of all waydown, this discussion has been stupid for a long time. As has been pointed out too many times to mention, every single credible source, that is RIAA, Billboard, IFPA, Soundscan and Guinness Book of Records ALL SAY THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. These are no what ifs, maybes, uncertified, and all the other arguments out there. These sources, THE ONES THAT COUNT ALL SAY BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. ALL OF THEM.
    2ND for your argument about singles vs. albums, the numbers have always been presented. Just look a Bob’s latest posting. Most sights have Elvis edging out the Beatles in singles sold. No one not myself or Bob is arguing that. Never have. But the Beatles have sold more albums and totally have sold more music when combining the two. That’s it. End of story.

  171. Simon says:

    Elvis has sold twice what the Beatles sold.
    That’s it. End of story.

  172. bob says:

    Simon,

    Another unsubstantiated claim.

    No evidence, no credibility.

    All independently audited sales figures indicate The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

  173. WayDown says:

    I quit because I can’t discuss on a forum where lies are used as reliable sources!

    – Lies about RCA (RCA is still accusing the counting methods and not admitting that the Beatles have won!)
    – Lies about singles (in their best dreams, the Beatles didn’t sell 119 million, and Elvis sold much more than 120, he’s a single seller not album! The same thing for Sinatra and Crosby who must have more than 300 millios singles sold, but RIAA is blind for that)
    – Lies about the King’s album sales where huge contities are still not counted (stupid counting methods, prior 58, other disk labels, non declared RCA albums because RCA didn’t pay RIAA in the 70’s like other disk labels did…)
    -Lies about gracenote/map (a big bull which places Beatles and Elvis 1st and 2nd in Iraq!)

    Anyway, in the begining I thouth I could have a good debate but now I’m convinced that you are going to sing your song even after all the proofs I gave to you. Garth understood that your sources are full of bull and admitted that he can’t beat the King, and God knows that he has more reliable sources than you 2 (bob & rcmsrw)!

    Good luck Simon, but you’re losing your time…

    Salutations patricia66, and also bob and rcmsrw ;o)

  174. bob says:

    So long Waydown,

    The bottom line is that according to all independently audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

  175. Simon says:

    @Waydown, a shame you are leaving Waydown, your contributions are well applauded. Thanks for your defence of the King, the only REAL biggest selling artist of all time. And don’t worry Waydown, only Bob and R2D2 don’t believe that fact, that staggering amount of evidence, that mountain of proof that there is no doubt whatsoever that the King sold most.

    But no matter what kind of evidence we show those 2, they will never believe it, as they are fixated on their belief that the Beatles sold most.

  176. Simon says:

    While in the REAL world everybody realizes and acknowledged that Elvis OF COURSE sold most. Billboard states so, Ernst Jorgensen states so, Sony states so, but most importantly every sane person realizes this. Just look around you, Elvis is everywhere, everyone has Elvis CD’s, Elvis is for sale everywhere, his face is plastered everywhere. Where are the Beatles? Only with some stuck up journalists and out of date Hippies. The Beatles are NOT selling anymore, so how could they be the best selling artists?

    Elvis sells all the time baby, ever since 1954, the counter is ticking, Elvis has sold close to 2 Billion records people, the Beatles ‘only’ around 650 million.

    Elvis is almost outselling the Beatles with 3:1
    Poetic justice, and Bob and R2D2 just can’t stand that fact.

    Nevertheless it’s true, as everye sane person KNOWS, Elvis is the best selling artist of ALL time.
    Cheers.

  177. rcmsrw says:

    Simon, you should be the one leaving. Please quit saying Billboard says that Elvis has sold the most. THAT IS A LIE. ANYONE IN THE WORLD CAN LOOK IT UP, EVEN YOU, AND BILLBOARD SAYS BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST.
    Bob and I aren’t the only ones saying it. besides Billboard there is RIAA, there is Soundscan,WHO SAYS THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD TWICE AS MANY AS ELVIS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS. lOOK IT UP, then there is the IFPA, the worldwide music organization, then there is the Guinness Book of World Records who verified the findings before publishing them.
    The above orgs are the most credible, recognized organizations in the worls when it comes to sales. And everyone of them lists the Beatles as number worldwide sellers. Everyone.
    So, no you and Waydown are the only wrong ones.
    You have not offered any proof except for out and out lies.
    Talk about anyone sane. Give me a break.

    Simon, I don’t lie. I can show you the press conference where RCA concurred with the RIAA numbers putting Elvis at #2. Show me an RCA quote after 2005, not back in 1999.

  178. rcmsrw says:

    Did anyone watch American Idol last night? Kind of funny. They did Elvis songs. At the beginning, they went over Elvis’ career. There’s Ryan Seacrest saying ” Elvis has sold over 1 billion records, making him the biggest selling SOLO ARTIST in history, SECOND ONLY TO THE BEATLES.

    hhmmmmmm, the Idol producers must be insane too right Simon. Maybe we should sue them for lying?
    Yeah, right.

  179. Simon says:

    That’s exactly the problem when corrupt entities as Soundscan and the likes keep spreading misinformation. Your example only shows how gullible people are misled. How many times I hear a misguided soul on TV say that Whacko Jacko is the best selling artist for example!

    Many people don’t know much about history, that’s clear.

    But to set your mind at ease, OF COURSE Elvis has sold most records ever, everyone knows that fact.
    And I never started about suing. Your pal Bob said to me that I could be sued for defamation when I stated that Soundscan and the likes are corrupt, but I still haven’t been sued :)

    Elvis number one, over 1.5 Billion! records sold.
    The Beatles number two, appr. 650 million records sold.
    There can only be one King.

  180. Simon says:

    And YES Billboard, the bible of the music industry states Elvis as the most succesful and best selling artist of all time. I put the quote up here earlier, look it up.

    And Soundscan and the others you mention don’t state ANYTHING about the Beatles the best selling act on their sites. You and Bob make it up son. Go to their websites…..zilch!

    But no sane person would even go there to see that, as they would KNOW that Elvis Presley of course has sold most records.

    Paul McCartney even says this!!! As Garth Brooks, Whacko Jacko and on and on and on and on. I put more confidence into what Mac says that what you and Bob say R2D2.

    There is no doubt whatsoever, everyone states and proves that Elvis is the best selling artist ever.
    End of discussion.

  181. Simon says:

    For the last time especially for you this quote R2D2:

    “According to the Billboard Charts, the bible of the recording industry, Elvis Presley far SURPASSES his contemporaries. In addition to his unprecedented top ten singles (38), he has the most charted singles (149), the most top 40 hits(107), and a few other achievements. Most weeks at #1(80), most consecutive #1 hits(10) and (30) consecutive top ten hits. Need we say more?
    (Billboard Magazine, Billboard Chart Information provided by Joel Whitburn’s Record Research Publications)

  182. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    You statements are rubbish: you state The Beatles do not sell anymore – that is a total lie.

    Some US album sales figures: Source – Soundscan

    2009

    The Beatles 3,282,000
    Elvis less than 1.8 million

    2001-2009

    The Beatles 30,182,000
    Elvis 16,486,000

    1991-2009

    The Beatles 60,370,000
    Elvis 32,000,000 plus

    The Beatles also sold 1,894,219 albums of their remasters in less than 3 months (9/9/09-12/06/09).

    The Beatles 1 released 14/11/00 sales : 11,691,553
    Elvis 30 #1’s released 24/09/02 sales : 4,621,053

    UK album sales figures : Source – OCC

    2000-2009

    The Beatles 7,000,000 plus
    Elvis 5,728,071

    They are the figures that refute your ridiculous statements. So, your statement about The Beatles not selling is rubbish, just like everything else you write.
    Your credibility is zero.

    You still cannot provide any sales figures showing Elvis has outsold The Beatles. All independently audited sales figures put The Beatles ahead of Elvis.

  183. Simon says:

    @Bob,

    I say your credibility is zero, or should I say Charles remember that fiasco :)

    I and many more have provided you with all the evidence you need to see that Elvis is the number ONE Seller of all time, you can cry what you want, the Beatles are not it!

    I am not going to repeat ALL the OVERWHELMING evidence that I have provided you with time and time again. No-one else is whining but you and R2D2, everyone else sees that Elvis is the number one seller, can’t you see that you 2 are beating a dead horse?

    It ain’t NEVER gonna happen that the Beatles catch up on Elvis, he has sold THREE times what the Beatles sold, no way they can catch up to that. They are not selling NOW anymore, so how on earth can they catch up while Elvis is still selling by the millions :)

    As BILLBOARD, the BIBLE of the music industry states: Elvis FAR surpasses all his contemporaries. And as McCartney himself stated: ‘there can be no question, Elvis is the biggest selling artist’.
    For crying out loud, don’t you believe your own idol!!!!!

    Elvis is number one, sales of more than 1.5 BILLION records. The Beatles, number two, with a very reasonable 650 million. Hey, there can only be one king now.
    Have a happy.

  184. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Your quote at post #182 does not mention sales figures. It states his chart feats surpasses his contemporaries – no mention of sales. You seem to have great difficulty in comprehending that chart records do not specify sales figures. You always conveniently ignore that The Beatles have the most #1 albums in the US (Beatles 19, Elvis 10) and the most #1 singles in the US (Beatles 20, Elvis 18) according to the Billboard charts, the bible of the recording industry.

    As for Soundscan, those sales figures may not be on their website, but you can find those figures if you Google the following:

    best selling artists in Soundscan era

    Mariah Carey 3rd best selling artist in Soundscan era

    Chart watch extra : the top 15 album acts of the bar-code era

    You can also contact Soundscan direct. They will confirm the figures.

    So, before you post again read those sites I have mentioned for you to google. The truth is out there.

  185. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    You keep saying The Beatles don’t sell anymore. That just proves how little you know. They have sold far more than Elvis in the last year, the last 10 years, the last 20 years and overall. The sales figures prove it. You do not provide any sales figures to support your argument – because you can’t.

  186. bob says:

    Simon,

    It is time for you to provide some sales figures that are independently audited with your source named or else be quiet.

  187. Simon says:

    Also, according to Billboard, the bible of the music charts, Elvis Presley holds the following records in the U.S. charts: read them and shiver:

    Elvis: Most Top Ten Singles – 38

    Elvis: Most Charted Singles – 149

    Elvis: Most Top 40 Hits – 107

    Elvis: Most weeks at #1 – 80

    Elvis: Most consecutive # 1 hits: 10

    Elvis: Most consecutive Top Ten Hits: 30

    In the United Kingdon:

    Most #1 Hits: 21

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (131)

    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (120)

    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (95)

    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (66)

    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54). Runner-up: Madonna (44)

    Most weeks on singles chart: Elvis Presley (1277 wks). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (1166 weeks)

    Do you REALLY think that the man who holds all these records, hasn’t sold most records? Then you are just plain stupid. Soundscan and all the others can say what they want, CORRUPT and misinformed as they are, Elvis is the King baby, the all time best seller.

    Even Paul McCartney acknowledges this fact, as does Billboard, as does Sony, as does the general public. Surprising that you haven’t commented on Mac’s comment. Very puzzling indeed :)

    Elvis Presley : number one, sales of over 1.5 BILLION (and the counter keeps going)

    The Beatles: number two, 650 Million sales

    Those are the facts in the REAL world Bob and R2D2.
    Sane persons know this, but if you want to stick you heads up Soundscan’s ass be my guest :) Have a happy!

  188. Gerrad says:

    I don’t believe Paul McCartney has ever said Rhat Elvis is the biggest selling artist ever. Prove it.

  189. Simon says:

    You prove you are Gerrad.

  190. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Did you read those sites with Soundscan figures?

    Again you provide no audited sales figures.

    I do not recall Paul McCartney saying Elvis was the biggest seller. Please provide proof of this.

    Garth Brooks said he was never going to be on the same level as The Beatles and said Elvis was the biggest selling SOLO artist of all time – not biggest selling artist.

    A sales figure update. According to the RIAA The Beatles have now sold 176 million in the US, compared to 120 million for Elvis.

    Beatles Stereo Boxset 3 x platinum
    Beatles Mono Boxset 2 x platinum
    Love 2 x platinum (Previously at 1 x platinum).

    And you keep saying The Beatles don’t sell anymore. Your credibility is in tatters.

    You may also like to read the website below:

    classicbands.com/elvis.html

    It is a detailed website of Elvis’ career. I draw your attention to two dates.

    9 March 1957 Billboard reports that Elvis has sold 12.5 million singles and 2.75 million albums.

    3 January 1966 RCA announces that Elvis’ total record sales now stands at 78 million.

    78 million records worldwide by January 1966 after his biggest selling 10 years is not a figure that would allow Elvis to sell a billion in his career. Do the maths – if you can?

    Interestingly it is consistent with the Guinness figures for Elvis of 130 million sales of discs equating to 275 singles equivalents by September 1970. At that date The Beatles had sold 133 million discs equating to 416 million singles equivalents. See my post #82 on page 1 of this site for further detail regarding these Guinness figures.

    It is more evidence pointing to the fact that The Beatles outsold Elvis.

    As the latest figures in the US show: The Beatles have sold 176 million albums compared to 120 million albums sold by Elvis. Source : RIAA

  191. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    I googled “Paul McCartney Elvis is the biggest selling artist” and the only link I got about that was your statement on this site.

    So, sounds like you are making your usual unsubstantiated statements.

  192. rcmsrw says:

    Bob, obviously if Simon thinks Soundscan, Billboard, RIAA and IFPA are corrupt then the argument is useless. he won’t believe what is true.
    I can say the world is flat, but it isn’t.
    Simon continues to give falsehoods, ” Billboard says Elvis sold the most”. This a lie, Billboard clearly says Beatles have sold the most. ” Soundscan doesn’t say Beat’es have sold the most” Another lie. Soundscan has been around for 20 years. In those 20 years, the Beatles have sold over 60 million, Elvis 30.-per Soundscan.
    Every source that is legitimate and audited says the Beatles have sold the most.

  193. rcmsrw says:

    Hey, Bob, the good thing is Simon keeps saying Billboard is the “bible”. I think we both agree with that.
    And he can say what he wants and show Elvis many gold single and albums on Billboard charts, BUT IF ANYONE LOOKS IT UP THEY WILL SEE THAT BILLBOARD SAYS THE BEATLES HAVE SOLD THE MOST. SO, END OF STORY.

  194. rcmsrw says:

    I also laugh at the “general public knows” comment.
    Again maybe not after American Idol this week.

    The producers of the biggest show on American TV, before about 30+ million viewers, said Elvis is 2nd to the Beatles. THEY WERE PROMOTING ELVIS, BUT THEY TOLD THE TRUTH.
    Now why would these guys from American Idol say that? Do they live in the real world? Are they aging hippies? Are they sane?
    This argument is a joke.
    Every legitimate source says the Beatles have sold the most. EVERY ONE.

  195. Simon says:

    Read the following very interesting article. Note that the 20 Million plus sales A WEEK following Elvis’ death haven’t even been counted. That figure alone sets him far above any other artist. Oh and Bob, I saw Mac say that on a BBC television program. I’m sure that is not googleable!

  196. Simon says:

    The greatest recording artist of all time? It’s Elvis, or maybe The Beatles. Or is it Garth Brooks? Some might also argue that the achievement of Michael Jackson and The Eagles with their ever-growing 20+ million certifications for their respective albums Thriller and Greatest Hits, are the true best-selling artists. The continuous media hype rages on each year as new methods of calculating sales converge with ever-changing consumer buying patterns and new technologies.

    – Roger Semon & Ernst Mikael Jørgensen

    elvisinfonet.com/elvisvsbeatlespart1.html

  197. Simon says:

    @R2D2

    Billboard, the bible of the music industry states very clearly for everyone to see that Elvis Presley far surpasses any of his contemporaries. That’s all I need to know. Soundscan has been around since what, 1991? They’re toddlers, Billboard has been around for ages and they very justly award Elvis with most sales.
    End of story.

  198. Gerrad says:

    Well Simon, if you can’t show the interview where Paul McCartney says that Elvis is the best selling artist of all time, we can’t really believe you can we?
    I once saw Elvis say that he was so stunned on how much the beatles outsold him that he was in a coma for a week. It was on CNN. I’m pretty sure that’s not googleable either!

  199. Simon says:

    Well Gerrad, you just knocked yourself right out of this discussion Einstein, as CNN did NOT exist until after Elvis died :)

    You are no rocket scientist now are you?

    Have a good weekend.

  200. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Just about everything you say is untrue. So the McCartney quote is also in that category. Everything McCartney says publicly is quickly on Google, just as Ringo’s statements at a press conference recently about the Vatican were immediately on Google. So if McCartney said what you stated it would be on Google.

    Simon, you don’t believe the Soundscan figures. It is strange that ElvisNews.com believes them.

    Just Google the following:

    ElvisNews.com: Soundscan (US) Top 50 Album Artists of the Decade

    Elvis is #25 with 16,486,000 sales. Beatles are #2 with 30,182,000.

    If ElvisNews.com uses these figures then Simon it is time to stop avoiding the truth.

    rcmsrw, you are right about Billboard. Simon cannot comprehend the difference between sales figures and chart achievements – separate entities entirely.

    Billboard states The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

    Simon cannot provide any evidence to disprove that.

    A simple question for you Simon.

    Who sold more albums in the US in 2009, The Beatles or Elvis?

    That will be a test of your honesty, credibility and perhaps mental capability.

    Please provide figures and source of those figures.

  201. Simon says:

    Bob, I can and I have prove(n) that Billboard states that Elvis far surpasses his contemporaries. How many times do I have to copy and paste the same thing here? Look it up in previous posts of mine.

    And yes McCartney did state that on tv, do you have any clue how many times the man has been on TV on the BBC alone the past 47 odd years? Do you think you know every bloody thing the man said? :) Do you also deny Lennon saying ‘Before Elvis there was nothing’?

    And as for who sold more in 2009, the Beatles or Elvis, that’s very simple, the Beatles, their excellent box set came out last year. And don’t get me wrong Bob, I have nothing against the Beatles. I think they were geniuses, and I dig a lot of their work, especially the early stuff and some of their later work. Elvis only outsold everyone, and yes that also includes The Beatles.
    I can’t make it anymore painless for you.

    Here’s a very interesting link into their ‘real sales’, by someone who was closely involved.

    musicindustrynewswire.com/2009/04/29/min1592_195858.php

  202. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Billboard states Elvis surpasses his contemporaries in chart achievements not sales. Billboard states The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. How many times do rcmsrw and I have to tell you that.

    Simon, you have finally admitted that The Beatles sold more albums than Elvis in the US in 2009. On numerous occasions you have previously said that The Beatles don’t sell anymore. You have just contradicted yourself. You have at last admitted The Beatles do still sell – defeating your own arguments. Bravo!

    Your arguments are illogical, contradictory and irrational.

    For example you provide as evidence in your latest post #202 and I quote “Here’s a very interesting link into their ‘real sales’, by someone who was closely involved.”

    Are you an idiot? Those sales figures are provided by David Kronemyer who was Vice President of Capitol records in 1985. I have referred to those figures on a few occasions previously. My first reference to them is on my post #311 on page 1 of this site. The date and time of that post was March 11th 2010 at 6:45pm. Those album sales figures reinforce the figures of the RIAA who recognise the sale of a double album as 2 sales.

    Those album sales figures for The Beatles exceed album sales figures for Elvis according to the RIAA – now 176 million to 120 million.

    Simon, again you have proven The Beatles have outsold Elvis – congratulations.

  203. Gerrad says:

    Simon, you don’t seem to get it do you?
    I said that as an example showing that you can claim anything and say it’s true. It’s really one word against the other. So you got to have some EVIDENCE before saying something.

  204. Simon says:

    @Gerr-ass, ow I got it alright but wanted to show you what an ass-clown you are, with your CNN remark. How the hell can I prove I have seen this on TV?

    And as for Bob, I tell it like it is, last year the Beatles did outsell The King because of that Box set. But so many years the King outsells The Beatles, every year almost, last year with that release was a rare occasion. But normally Elvis outsells the Beatles each and every year. You call me an idiot? What should I call you then Bob, representing yourself as Bob one minute and as Charles the other…..

    Billboard always states that Elvis has sold most of all artists, there’s no two ways about it. And Soundscan has been around since 1991, I don’t take them seriously. Billboard is the bible of the music industry. Elvis is the biggest selling artist they say, and I of course wholeheartedly believe them.

    Elvis has sold about 1.5 BILLION records worldwide. That makes him the number one for all times I would say. And every big shot agrees with me, even people that some institutions say are the biggest sellers.

    Garth Brooks says ELvis is the biggest seller.

    Paul McCartney says Elvis is the biggest seller.

    Every sane person sees this Bob, maybe that will tell you something :)

    Have a good weekend.

  205. Gerrad says:

    You can’t prove it, that’s the problem is. So stop quoting something you can’t prove it’s true.

  206. Simon says:

    I have it on DVD, come watch it then, is that proof?
    Paul McCartney: ‘Oh there’s no doubt that Elvis sold most records’.

  207. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Garth Brooks says Elvis is the biggest selling solo artist, not the biggest selling artist. Please read his quote again. It is at post #102 as put up by Waydown. I will quote it for you:

    “I’m never going to be on the Beatles’ (level) in my mind. If I am to someone else out there, thank you, that’s flattering, but I’ll never believe it. And the RIAA was sweet to give us the largest-selling solo act in history, but I think we all know it is Elvis. It’s just the method of counting wasn’t as certifiable then as it is now. So it’s cool and everything, but at the same time, please know I am seeing it with a very real look.”

    So Garth Brooks is saying he thinks Elvis is the biggest selling solo artist in history not the biggest selling artist. Simon you are wrong and if you cannot comprehend that this dialogue is pointless.

    Paul McCartney did not say Elvis was the biggest selling artist. Provide the evidence – such as where (which TV program) and when (date).

    Elvis has not sold 1.5 billion records – that is record company hype. Give me a country by country breakdown.

    He may have sold 1.5 million units where one album sale is counted as 6 units, 1 EP sale counts as 2 units and a single sale counts as 1 unit. The Beatles have sold about 2.8 billion units by that counting.

    The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 60 million to 32 million since 1991. Source Soundscan

    The Beatles have outsold Elvis by 30 million to 16 million in the last decade (2000-2009). Source : Soundscan.

    Soundscan is recognized within the recording industry as an independently audited sales measurement organisation.

    Soundscan is quoted by all major music magazines such as Billboard, Rolling Stone etc.

    Simon, you do not and cannot provide any independently audited sales figures to support your claims.

    No evidence, no credibility.

  208. Gerrad says:

    What is the DVD called?

  209. Simon says:

    BILLBOARD:

    “Elvis FAR surpasses any of his contemporaries.”

    Elvis number 1 worldwide sales of over 1.5 BILLION

    The Beatles number 2 worldwide sales of appr. 650 million

    Do the maths, Elvis is by far number one, and will never be beaten by anyone anymore, not with these kind of figures.

    As Lennon said: “Before Elvis, there was nothing”

  210. Gerrad says:

    Billboard about Elvis:

    ”Dozens upon dozens of international smashes from the mid-’50s to the mid-’70s, as well as the steady sales of his catalog and reissues since his death in 1977, may make him the single highest-selling performer in history.”

  211. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    John Lennon also said “Elvis died when he went into the army”. Lennon meant Elvis died artistically and he was right. But that is beside the point – the question is about sales and you provide no evidence to support your statements.

    Your sales numbers are rubbish – I notice that you do not provide a source. You just keep regurgitating the same old Billboard statement that does not refer to sales. Perhaps you need to go back to school to improve your comprehension.

    You did not answer Gerrad’s question. What is the DVD called?

    So until you answer that question your comment about Paul McCartney can be consigned to the rubbish bin, along with your comments about The Beatles not selling any more and record stores not stocking their CDs; as you finally admitted The Beatles sold more albums than Elvis in the US in 2009.

    All independently audited sales figures show The Beatles as the biggest selling artists.

  212. Simon says:

    I recorded it from TV a long time ago Bob/Gerrad.

    Elvis went in another direction after the army, that’s all, his manager wanted him to appeal to a broader audience. With very much success I might add, It’s Now Or Never sold about 25 million copies.

    Billboard stated that Elvis far surpasses any of his contemporaries. How true!

    All independently audited sales figures show The Beatles as the biggest selling artists you say Bob?

    You mean Soundscan and the likes. Just go to their webpages, there is not one single mention of The Beatles the best selling act. You just make this up, show me the pages! And don’t give me that go Google trash. Just go to the websites of the entities that you mention, and you’ll find zilch. On the other hand if you go to Billboard, you’ll find that Elvis has the record number of Gold and Platinum records, hummm, how do you think that is? Because he sold most records. That’s why.

    They don’t call him the King for nothing, and as Lennon so rightly stated about his revered idol: “Before Elvis there was nothing”. Thank you Mr. Lennon.

    Elvis worldwide sales : over 1.5 BILLION…….
    The Beatles worldwide sales: 650 million….

    That’s what the difference is between a (once) very talented group, and their idol, Elvis Presley, the one and only real king of pop.

    Have a nice evening.

  213. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    What was the name of the TV show? When was it recorded?

    Please provide that information or your statement regarding Paul McCartney stays in the rubbish bin along with your statements about The Beatles not selling anymore, record stores not stocking Beatles CDs and Garth Brooks stating Elvis is the biggest selling artist. All those statements are wrong.

    You keep saying “Billboard stated that Elvis far surpasses any of his contemporaries”. In relation to chart achievements that is true – as I have said before -but it does not say Elvis is the biggest selling artist.

    That should not be difficult to understand but you do not seem to want to grasp that fact.

    Elvis does have the most gold and platinum records – I agree with that. However that does not mean he has sold the most records overall. The Beatles have 6 diamond awards (10 million sales) compared to zero for Elvis. So that means The Beatles albums sold in far greater quantities than Elvis albums. In fact 6 of The Beatles albums have sold 84 million. The top 6 Elvis albums sold about 30 million. See my post #165 on page 2 of this site for more details.

    That is why having the most gold and platinum awards does not mean an artist has sold the most. Those gold, platinum, multi platinum and diamond awards are given by the RIAA. The RIAA states The Beatles have sold 176 million albums compared to 120 million albums for Elvis.

    Simon, you cannot quote the RIAA figures about gold and platinum awards and ignore the RIAA total sales figures. You must be consistent. So you prove once again that The Beatles have sold more than Elvis. Bravo!

    Billboard states The Beatles are the biggest selling artists.

    Are you incapable of googling? Or does the truth scare you?

    Google the following:

    ElvisNews.com:Soundscan (US) Top 50 Album Artists of the Decade

    You will see that The Beatles are #2 with album sales of 30,182,000, while Elvis is #25 with album sales of 16,486,000 during the decade 2000-2009.

    Google the following:

    Chart Watch Extra: The Top 15 Album Acts of the Bar-Code Era

    You will see The Beatles are #2 with 56,683,000 album sales at September 2008 compared to 30,042,000 album sales for Elvis who is at #15. Add in the 2009 sales figures and you get 60 million plus album sales for The Beatles and 32 million plus album sales for Elvis (this is for the Soundscan era 1991-2009).

    Simon, if you can’t Google those sites then you are in a state of denial. Or perhaps just incapable. All those figures have been released by Soundscan and accepted by the music industry and also by ElvisNews.com.

    The truth is out there.

  214. Simon says:

    Just go to the Soundscan webpage and look it up. It’s simply not there. And there are other websites by the way that very clearly DO place Elvis number one sales wise for instance this one:

    74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:N7GvEC4Ac-oJ:www.top10land.com/top-ten-best-selling-music-artists.html+elvis+presley+is+the+biggest+selling&cd=9&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl

    No ifs and buts, very plainly to see: Elvis number one in sales. Now, Soundscan doesn’t offer that. Not one word about who’s the best selling artist.
    So I prefer the site I just recommended. It’s a better site also, as they tell the truth, Elvis number one, as if there was ever ANY doubt in the real world!

    Everyone knows these figures to be the gospel in the real world:

    Elvis over 1.5 Billion sales
    The Beatles 650 million sales

    Elvis outclasses them with more than 2:1

    As George Harrison said:
    “We know Elvis is great. Seeing Elvis was like seeing the messiah arrive.”

    Way to go George! Long live the real king of pop, Elvis!

  215. Simon says:

    Oh and Bob and Gerrad, in case you didn’t believe George said that either, it’s for all to bee seen and read at the Liverpool Beatles Exhibition :)

    elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_elvis_artefact_beatles.html

  216. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    That link does not come up – but just because some website says Elvis is the biggest selling artist does not mean it is true. The sales figures must be independently audited, and on that basis The Beatles are the biggest selling artists according to RIAA, Soundscan, OFPI, OCC, Guinness.

    Those sales figures of yours are unsubstantiated and so they go into the rubbish bin along with your Paul McCartney quote etc.

    You still have not answered the questions about that McCartney quote (where and when?).

    Alternatively you could put it on YouTube. So the ball is in your court regarding your lack of credibility.

    Those Soundscan figures may not be on the Soundscan website but they have been publicly released. You can access those sales figures by googling the sites I mentioned on post #214. Seems like you are scared of the truth.

    George Harrison’s quote does not mention sales figures and is therefore irrelevant.

    John Lennon in his famous Rolling Stone interview with Jann Wenner stated in response to a question that The Beatles wanted to be bigger than Elvis “because Elvis was the biggest. We wanted to be the biggest, doesn’t everybody?”

    When asked when he realized The Beatles were bigger than Elvis, Lennon replied “I don’t know. See it’s different when it happens, you’ve forgotten about it. It’s like when you actually get the number one, or whatever it is, it’s different. It’s the going for it that is the fun”.

    So for what it is worth (actually nothing), Lennon thought The Beatles were bigger than Elvis.

    If you actually think Elvis sold 1.5 billion records your maths is suspect.

    Sales figures (in millions) for a few major markets:

    The Beatles Elvis Source

    US 176 120 RIAA
    Europe 93 way less Fan of Music
    UK 32 20 OCC
    Canada 18 way less CRIA
    Australia 6 4 ARIA

    Which countries did Elvis outsell The Beatles?

    Give me the sales figures.

    On those figures above neither The Beatles nor Elvis have sold a billion records. A billion units yes! Where 1 LP equals 6 singles, 1 EP equals 2 singles.

    So Simon, I am looking forward to seeing the McCartney DVD on YouTube; and also looking forward to the countries where Elvis has outsold The Beatles with sales figures and source.

  217. Simon says:

    I’m done with you Bob, I have proven time and time again that all records indicate that Elvis has sold most records worldwide. It’s not even close, The Beatles, as good as they were are not in the same class as Elvis, but that’s nothing to be ashamed about as no-one is in his class.

    So John Lennon said he thought they were bigger than Elvis? That doesn’t surprise me one bit, as he also said he thought they were even bigger than Jesus Christ…..

    Elvis Presley has sold over 1.5 Billion records worldwide
    The Beatles have sold appr. 650 million records worldwide

    There is no matching him, they don’t call him the King for nothing.

    As Billboard states: ‘Elvis far surpasses any of his contemporaries.

    Elvis the King, talent wise, gold records wise, sales wise. End of story.

    Have a good weekend.

  218. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    No sales figures, no YouTube, no credibility – straight to the rubbish bin.

    In your post #215 you say “Way to go George! Long live the real king of pop, Elvis!”.

    Wrong again!

    Elvis is called the “King of Rock and Roll”. It is Michael Jackson who is called the “King of Pop”.

    According to all independently audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time.

  219. Gerrad says:

    Simon, I can’t really find that quote but I’m pretty sure that they mean he far suprasses an of his contemporaries when it comes to chart preformance. But can’t say for sure.

    Then we have this quote from Billoard regarding Elvis ”Dozens upon dozens of international smashes from the mid-’50s to the mid-’70s, as well as the steady sales of his catalog and reissues since his death in 1977, may make him the single highest-selling performer in history”.
    See! highest selling single performer!

  220. Simon says:

    Hey Bob,

    Michael Jackson was only the king of pop in His mind. His record company instigated that whole title rubbish.

    Elvis was called the King by his fans, and he didn’t like to be called that himself, Elvis was a very modest man. What’s with this YouTube business, I’m 45 years old, be glad I know how to handle a computer, let alone put movies on Youtube…

    And Bob, for the last time, Elvis is considered to be the biggest selling artist by any serious music lover, and the only institution I give credit is Billboard, the bible of the music industry, and they say Elvis is the biggest selling artist of all time. But any sane person would know that fact by now.

    I went to the local record store today and made it a point to see how many Beatles and Elvis cd’s they carry. I counted 2 Beatles CD’s and 25 Elvis CD’s, humm who do you think sells more :)

    Another funny thing happened this week, I went to a party and there were 4 17 year old girls. Out of curiosity I threw up some names to see if they knew them: you girls know Marilyn Monroe? Yes…that blonde right? Jim Morrison? ….stares. John Lennon? …’wasn’t he in a band?’ :) Elvis ….and there they went singing songs of the King. Jailhouse Rock, Hound Dog….
    EVERYONE knows Elvis, from toddlers to pensioners.
    As it seems, teenagers don’t even KNOW Lennon anymore….

    Well, Elvis’ staying power is indeed really unique in the music world. In 100 years everyone will still know and love Elvis, Lennon, it seems, is already forgotten by youngsters. :)

    Have a happy

    @Gerrad, yes they Would call him the highest selling single performer, he was ‘a’ single performer, as opposed to the Beatles, who were a group.

  221. Gerrad says:

    For being 45 Simon you sure don’t act like it.

    Firstly I think you can understand that we can’t possibly believe the Paul McCartney quote since you can’t prove it.

    Then to the John Lennon thingie. Many people may not have heard of him but they sure have heard of The Beatles. If you would have asked that I’m sure they would have known.
    And I do think though stories like that are irrelevant to the debate cause we could all be here talking about how many people we’ve met that likes Elvis or The Beatles but that wouldn’t prove a thing or bring anything to the conversation.

    Then if he would have been the worlds best selling artist they would have said that. They say highest single selling artist because he is the higest selling single artist. He outsells any single artist but not The Beatles. It isn’t hard to understand at all.

  222. Simon says:

    Gerrad, you know what isn’t hard to understand at all for any sane person in the real world?
    That Elvis Presley is the best known, most loved and best selling artist in the world. Live with the fact.
    He isn’t called the King for nothing.

    Elvis Presley sales over 1.5 Billion records.
    The Beatles sales of 650 million records. Still, not bad at all, but not in the King’s league of course.

    Have a happy!

  223. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Elvis is called the “King of Rock and Roll”, the King for short. Michael Jackson is called the “King of Pop”. These are titles “given” by the media and count for nothing. Your comment regarding Paul McCartney is obviously rubbish.

    Neither The Beatles nor Elvis have sold a billion records let alone a billion albums. A billion units yes.

    Sales figures updates:

    Album sales in Europe (including the UK):

    The Beatles 93,000,000
    Elvis Presley 43,000,000

    In my post #217 I mistakenly included the UK figures in the Europe figures.

    Album sales in the US

    The Beatles 176,000,000
    Elvis Presley 120,000,000

    Only four artists have sold more than 100 million records (singles, EP’s and albums) in Europe.

    #1 The Beatles
    #2 Queen
    #3 Madonna
    #4 Michael Jackson

    Two biggest selling album artists in Japan:

    #1 Mariah Carey
    #2 The Beatles

    So, Simon the facts are there. It is impossible for any artist to have sold a billion records (albums, EP’s and singles), let alone a billion albums.

    Google “best selling recording artists of all time” and you will come to vanityedge website.

    The biggest selling artists of albums worldwide according to vanityedge are:

    The Beatles 365 million
    Elvis Presley 250 million
    Michael Jackson 228 million
    Madonna 200 million
    Pink Floyd 195 million

    These figures appear consistent with independently audited sales figures and within the realms of possibility – unlike your phantom figures. Get back into the real world.

    Simon, I went to two record stores yesterday and they both stocked the entire Beatles catalogue (more than 15 albums) with 3-4 copies of each. The only Elvis Presley CD’s in one store were two in the bargain bin (less than $10) and 3 CD’s in the other store. That is similar in every record store I go into but as you know (hopefully anyway), that is not a random sample. Worldwide it does not count for anything just the same as your little sample.

    It is sales figures that count. On all independently audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists and you have provided no proof to the contrary.

    No proof, no credibility.

  224. Gerrad says:

    Okey Simon, where do you get those sales from?

  225. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    For a 45 year old your arguments are pathetically puerile.

    You have never provided any sales figures that are supported by independently audited bodies – just phantom figures.

    Please answer the following questions and provide supporting evidence.

    Who sold the most albums in the US in the last decade (2000-2009), The Beatles or Elvis Presley?

    Who sold the most albums in the US in the Soundscan era (1991-2009), The Beatles or Elvis Presley?

    Simon, you say and I quote “That Elvis Presley is the best known, most loved and best selling artist in the world.”

    Google the following:

    Rapleaf Study: Popularity and fan demographics of Michael Jackson, The Beatles, Elvis, and Madonna across social media

    You will see that The Beatles have nearly 3 times as many online fans as Elvis, and more fans than Elvis, Madonna and Michael Jackson combined.

    You will also find Elvis has an older fan base, and Michael Jackson and The Beatles have a younger fan base. Michael Jackson and The Beatles are the most popular in the 18-25 age bracket.

    This was a sample of 1.1 million fans taken after the death of Michael Jackson. It has much more value than your sample of four 17 year old girls!

    Get into the real world! The truth is there.

  226. Simon says:

    ELvis over 1.5 BILLION records sold.
    The Beatles appr. 650 million records sold.

    There really is no comparison Bob, you are getting pathetic and manic.

    Everyone knows Elvis has most fanclubs worldwide, Elvis has most fans, every youngster knows Elvis, it seems more and more youngsters don’t even know Lennon anymore.

    650.000 fans take a tour of Graceland every year, his candle light vigil on August 15, draws still thousands of fans each and every year, even after almost 33 years.

    Where are the Lennon vigils? Oh right, they don’t exist. Well maybe 2 or 3 hippies lighting a candle, poor contrast with Elvis’ yearly memorial.

    Be content with what you have Bob, the Beatles, the best selling Group of the music industry. They are alass for you not in Elvis’ league. Elvis is the biggest selling recording artist in the world. But any sane person knows this Bob, except you……does that tell you something perhaps :)
    Bye bye.

  227. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Your post #227 is pathetically puerile for a 45 year old. I find it hard to believe you are 45 years old – your arguments are like that of a teenager.

    Again you provide no evidence just more assertions. I provide evidence from a creditable polling organisation (Rapleaf.com) which shows The Beatles are almost 3 times more popular online than Elvis Presley; and all you can provide is a poll of 4 teenage girls at a party. Pathetic!

    Who has the credibility problem? It is Simon who has no credibility.

    Why didn’t you answer my questions at post #226. Was it because you did not want to admit The Beatles outsold Elvis Presley during those periods?

    Check the following link for album sales in Europe if you dare:

    ukmix.org/forums/viewpoint.php?t=44468

    I hope it is true when you state in your post #227 “Bye bye”.

    I hope it is bye bye to your unsubstantiated assertions. Good riddance.

  228. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Again no evidence just more mindless assertions. Why didn’t you answer my questions at post #226? Scared of the answers perhaps!

    I provide evidence from a well credentialed online polling organisation that shows The Beatles have almost 3 times as many online fans as Elvis Presley. All you can provide is a poll of 4 teenage girls at a party. Pathetic!

    You have no credibility.

    Please Simon stick to your word about it being “Bye bye”.

  229. Gerrad says:

    Now you are just avoiding the questions Simon,

    Where do you get those numbers from?

  230. Simon says:

    @Bob,

    Wouldn’t you like that now, for me to disappear here so you could go on poisoning the more gullable people who frequent here.

    I have given you SO many charts that show Elvis is number one, those charts are based on SALES Bob, I’ve given you all the stats about Elvis having MOST gold and platinum records, what’s that based on you think? SALES.

    I have shown you Elvis’ staggering records in ALL record charts, he is untouchable.

    Please stop you childish attempts to show the Beatles sold more than Elvis, it simply isn’t so, Elvis sold most of all artists, those are the facts, live with it.

    As Billboard, the BIBLE of the music industry states:
    “Elvis FAR surpasses ANY of his contemporaries.”

    Can you understand those words Bob? Billboard states Elvis sold most records. It’s that simple, but anyone who can look around and think for himself already LONG knows this. There is no beating the King, Elvis!

    Enjoy those facts.

    Elvis over 1.5 Billion records sold.
    The Beatles still very nice at 650 million.

    Have a happy.

  231. Gerrad says:

    s ”Dozens upon dozens of international smashes from the mid-’50s to the mid-’70s, as well as the steady sales of his catalog and reissues since his death in 1977, may make him the single highest-selling performer in history”.

    It clearly says that he is the highest selling single performer in history. If he was the best selling artist ever it would say so but he ISNT.

  232. Simon says:

    Billboard states: Elvis far surpasses ANY of his contemporaries. ‘Any’ includes the Beatles also then :)

  233. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Your ability to comprehend written English is at a very low level.

    When Billboard says that “Elvis far surpasses any of his contemporaries” it means in chart performance. That is Elvis has more top 75 entries, more top 40 entries and more top 10 entries. I agree with that as I have said before. It does NOT mean he has sold more records. If you cannot comprehend that any further dialogue with you is pointless.

    The Beatles have more #1 albums and #1 singles in the US than Elvis Presley – you always ignore that fact.

    You mention Elvis Presley has more gold and platinum records. That is true and I agree with that as I have said before. Those gold and platinum awards that you mention are awarded by the RIAA.

    Again you conveniently ignore that the RIAA has US album sales as follows:

    The Beatles 176 million
    Elvis Presley 120 million

    So Simon, the source for your gold and platinum awards (RIAA) states The Beatles have outsold Elvis in the US. You appear incapable of comprehending that fact.

    When are you going to answer my questions?

    Your logic is that of a primary school student – 4 teenage girls at a party state something so it must be true! Then you conveniently ignore a poll of 1.1 million online music fans conducted by a reputable online organization (Rapleaf.com) that shows The Beatles have almost 3 times as many on line fans as Elvis Presley.

    Only a fool would ignore the poll of 1.1 million people and accept a poll of 4 teenage girls.

    Simon, this blog is about sales and on all independently audited sales figures The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time. Your figures are unsourced and unsubstantiated. Did you check out the album sales figures for Europe? The Beatles are a long way ahead.

    Answer this question.

    Can you name a country where Elvis has outsold The Beatles (with supporting evidence of course)?

  234. bob says:

    Gerrad’s point at post #232 is absolutely correct. If Elvis was the biggest selling artist it would say so, it does not.

  235. bob says:

    Updated sales figures for album sales in Japan by foreign acts:

    #1 The Beatles 25 million
    #2 Mariah Carey 18 million
    #3 The Carpenters 11 million

    Album sales in Europe (including UK)

    #1 The Beatles 93 million
    #2 Queen 80 million
    #3 Madonna 73 million
    #4 Michael Jackson 70 million
    #5 Pink Floyd 69.9 million
    #6 U2 59 million
    #7 Phil Collins 55 million
    #8 Rolling Stones 53.8 million
    #9 Elton John 52.6 million
    #10 Abba 52.3 million
    #10 Dire Straits 52.3 million
    #12 Celine Dion 50.9 million
    .
    .
    #? Rod Stewart 43.5 million
    #? Elvis Presley 43.3 million

    Album sales in the US:

    #1 The Beatles 176 million
    #2 Garth Brooks 128 million
    #3 Elvis Presley 120 million

    The Beatles have also sold more albums than Elvis Presley in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

  236. Simon says:

    Hey Bob,

    As you very well know Elvis has outsold the Beatles in EVERY country, simply because he has sold most records.

    YOU always seem to conveniently forget that Elvis has had the most #1 singles in England, and many, many more records he holds.

    I can understand you are frantic in proving that the Beatles have sold more, but it’s not so in the REAL world Bob, as anyone knows and realizes.
    Elvis Presley has sold most records, period.

    Elvis 1.5 BILLION records sold.
    The Beatles 650 million records sold.

  237. Simon says:

    Also, according to Billboard, the bible of the music charts, Elvis Presley holds the following records in the U.S. charts: read them and shiver:

    Elvis: Most Top Ten Singles – 38

    Elvis: Most Charted Singles – 149

    Elvis: Most Top 40 Hits – 107

    Elvis: Most weeks at #1 – 80

    Elvis: Most consecutive # 1 hits: 10

    Elvis: Most consecutive Top Ten Hits: 30

    In the United Kingdon:

    Most #1 Hits: 21

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (131)

    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (120)

    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (95)

    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (66)

    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54). Runner-up: Madonna (44)

    Most weeks on singles chart: Elvis Presley (1277 wks). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (1166 weeks)

    Hey Bob, where are the Beatles????????? :)

    These are the statistics of the most loved and best selling artist in the world. There can only be one…..Elvis Presley!

  238. Gerrad says:

    ”As you very well know Elvis has outsold the Beatles in EVERY country, simply because he has sold most records.”

    But Bob just showed you the numbers from those countries that clearly shows how The Beatles outsell Elvis. It clearly says that!

    Also, we’ve given you direct quotes from Billboard saying that Elvis isn’t the best selling act of all time. But you just ignore that.

    And Simon, regarding the Paul McCartney quote. Dont you agree that we obviously can’t believe you that it exists. Cause first you said you saw it on TV, then that you for some reason had it on DVD but can’t upload it on youtube. Not to mention if you Google it no hits come up.

  239. Simon says:

    And I showed you the chart success of the King Gerrad. Those charts are based on sales. And everybody knows Elvis’ accountings of his records are a shambles, RIAA doesn’t even count his singles :) and all of Elvis’ sales from 1954 to 1958 haven’t been taken into equation! That’s like not counting the Beatles’ sales from 1963 to 1967!

    And the Macca quote I indeed saw on TV and recorded it on my DVD player, and yes I now have it on DVD, is that so hard to understand?

  240. Simon says:

    Just for anyone who wouldn’t believe Elvis to be the best selling artist in history here the list of the titan is again:

    Also, according to Billboard, the bible of the music charts, Elvis Presley holds the following records in the U.S. charts: read them and shiver:

    Elvis: Most Top Ten Singles – 38

    Elvis: Most Charted Singles – 149

    Elvis: Most Top 40 Hits – 107

    Elvis: Most weeks at #1 – 80

    Elvis: Most consecutive # 1 hits: 10

    Elvis: Most consecutive Top Ten Hits: 30

    In the United Kingdon:

    Most #1 Hits: 21

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (131)

    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (120)

    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (95)

    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (66)

    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54). Runner-up: Madonna (44)

    Most weeks on singles chart: Elvis Presley (1277 wks). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (1166 weeks)

    Hey Bob, where are the Beatles????????? :)

    These are the statistics of the most loved and best selling artist in the world. There can only be one…..Elvis Presley!

  241. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    As I have said before, those chart statistics for Elvis Presley just show he was extremely successful not that he is the biggest selling artist. I agree with those chart statistics but they are not sales figures. If you cannot understand that then nothing more needs to be said.

    I have always agreed that Elvis has the most #1 singles in the UK, but it is you who conveniently ignore that The Beatles have the most #1 singles in the US, the most #1 albums in the US and the most #1 albums in the UK.

    Those chart statistics do NOT specify sales figures. You cannot name one country where Elvis Presley has outsold The Beatles and provide evidence.

    You always say Elvis Presley has the most gold and platinum awards but do not seem to realize that the RIAA gives those awards. The same RIAA states The Beatles have sold 176 million albums in the US compared to 120 million albums for Elvis. You can’t ignore that fact when you quote the RIAA gold and platinum awards.

    Simon, you are wrong when you say that the sales for Elvis Presley from 1954-58 are not counted by the RIAA. His sales from when he signed with RCA (in 1956) are counted by the RIAA. Perhaps his sales with Sun records may not be included but they were minimal. His Sun records did not chart nationally in the US (lack of sales) and they were not released outside the US (no sales there!). Your ignorance is breathtaking.

    If you had that McCartney quote on DVD saying what you said, you would have it on YouTube in a flash. As Gerrad said you cannot be believed on that.

    Your arguments are a nonsense as you produce chart feats not sales figures. You can shout as loudly as you want but no one will believe you as you can provide no evidence.

    Simon, it is you who are frantic and shrill. I provide sales figures to support my arguments which you have never done. See my post #236 as an example.

    The Beatles have sold more albums than Elvis Presley in the US, Europe, UK, Japan, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

    Simon, if Elvis Presley sold 1.5 billion records world wide please give a breakdown of albums sold and singles sold (with sources). If you can’t do that then that figure of 1.5 billion is obviously a figment of your imagination.

  242. Gerrad says:

    Have you given up Simon?

  243. bob says:

    World wide singles sales:

    The Beatles

    Country Millions

    USA 60.90
    Mainland Europe 27.35
    UK 20.90
    Japan 7.04
    Australia 3.20
    Canada 2.73
    ROW (approx) 15.00

    Total 137.12

    Elvis Presley

    Country Millions

    USA 80.80
    Mainland Europe 14.21
    UK 20.91
    Japan 1.30
    Australia 3.29
    Canada 2.18
    ROW (approx) 15.00

    Total 137.69

    ROW = Rest of World

    World Wide EP sales

    The Beatles 15 million
    Elvis Presley 20 million

  244. bob says:

    World wide album sales:

    1 album sold (double/triple/16 disc box set) = 1 sale (Soundscan method)

    The Beatles

    Country Millions

    USA 161
    Mainland Europe 59
    UK 34
    Japan 25
    Canada 18
    Australia 6
    ROW 49

    Total 352

    Elvis Presley

    Country Millions

    USA

  245. bob says:

    World wide album sales:

    Elvis Presley

    Country Millions

    USA 148
    Mainland Europe 20
    UK 23
    Japan 8
    Canada 12
    Australia 4
    ROW 20

    Total 235

    Using the RIAA counting method where 1 double album = 2 sales, 1 triple album = 3 sales, 1 16 disc box-set = 16 sales.

    World wide album sales are:

    The Beatles 470 million
    Elvis Presley 300 million

    Total record sales (singles + EP’s + albums):

    The Beatles 352 + 15 + 137 = 504 million
    Elvis Presley 235 + 20 + 138 = 393 million

    Total record sales using the RIAA counting method

    The Beatles 470 + 15 + 137 = 622 million
    Elvis Presley 300 + 20 + 138 = 458 million

    Using the singles equivalents counting method where 1 album = 6 singles, 1 EP = 2 singles, 1 singles = 1 single.

    RIAA counting method and singles equivalents:

    The Beatles 2987 million (6 x 470, 2 x 15, 137)
    Elvis Presley 1978 million (6 x 300, 2 x 20, 138)

    Using Soundscan counting method and singles equivalents:

    The Beatles 2279 million (6 x 352, 2 x 15, 137)
    Elvis Presley 1588 million (6 x 235, 2 x 20, 138)

  246. bob says:

    World wide album sales: Soundscan counting method

    Elvis Presley

    Country Millions

    USA 148
    Mainland Europe 18
    UK 25
    Japan 8
    Canada 12
    Australia 4
    ROW 21

    Total 236

  247. bob says:

    World wide album sales using RIAA method where a double album sale = 2 sales, a triple album sale = 3 sales, 16 disc box set = 16 sales etc.

    The Beatles 470 million
    Elvis Presley 300 million

    Total record sales : singles + EP’s + albums:

    Soundscan counting method

    The Beatles 137 + 15 + 352 = 504 million
    Elvis Presley 138 + 20 + 236 = 394 million

    Using RIAA counting method

    The Beatles 137 + 15 + 470 = 622 million
    Elvis Presley 138 + 20 + 300 = 458 million

    Using singles equivalents method with Soundscan counting

    1 album = 6 singles
    1 EP = 2 singles
    1 single = 1 single

    The Beatles 137 + 30 + 2112 = 2279 million
    Elvis Presley 138 + 40 + 1416 = 1594 million

    Using singles equivalents method with RIAA counting

    The Beatles 137 + 30 + 2820 = 2987 million
    Elvis Presley 138 + 40 + 1800 = 1978 million

  248. Gerrad says:

    Well il take this silence from Bob & Co that they now finally agree that The Beatles are the best selling act of all time. Big kudos to Bob and Rcmsrw for not giving up and continuing figthing for the truth ( sounds a bit cheesy but couldn’t come up with something better to say )!

  249. patricia66 says:

    Nope, we do not agree on that The Beatles are the best selling act of all time. The Kronemyer article clearly showed that their figures are widely exaggerated. It is almost a Billion (!) less than what EMI usually claims ;-).

    The RIAA certifies singles up this day but does publish only the album sales in the category “best selling artist”, i.e. the more than 50 Million single sales of Elvis are not added to his 120 Million album sales. You can check this with the RIAA staff if you are reluctant to believe Nick Keene.

    Plus, as stated numerous times before here, Elvis products are distributed through several other channels that SoundScan do not cover. The RIAA method of relying on shipments minus returns is much more reliable than the SoundScan method that relies only on a certain number of big retail shops = one distribution channel.

    If you do a little research on the Beatles latest reissue campaign, you will find sufficient information that the sales are not that great if compared with the massive campaign started for it. There was certainly no big campaign for Elvis 75 which is not heavily promoted at all as was the case with Elvis 30 #1.

  250. patricia66 says:

    @Bob,

    although Elvis Presley has a lot of units that are not acknowledged by RIAA he has the most RIAA certifications with 151 – the Beatles “only” have 108. That says a lot, if you consider that these are sales through all distribution channels.

    The method of not adding the single sales to the album sales when listing the biggest selling artists is probably done because a statistic that would add the singles would have a lot more oldies on top of the list as there are already there. I mean, give me a break – a band that doesn’t exist anymore for 40 years and a solo artist that is dead 33 years are right at the top doesn’t look too good for todays music industry. Add the singles and even more oldtimers would climb higher ;-).

    Bob, your method of counting with singles and album cuts reminds me of the SEM method where Beatles albums cuts were multiplied in order to be compared to single sales of Elvis. What that method does not account for is that singles or EPs in the singles and EP era were as expensive for customers than albums were later on because of the economic situation. That’s why you have to stick to a straight way of counting singles as singles, EPs as EPs and albums as albums. If you simply multiply or leave something out you deliberately falsify.

  251. patricia66 says:

    With regard to Bob’s post #165:
    Nick Keene refers to the RIAA and uses their figures in his account. As far as I can see, he is the only one who came up with detailed figures that can be checked and figures that are estimated which he lists as estimates, whereas your suggestion to simply Google “best selling artists in Soundscan era” still shows only a list with best sold albums from 1991 onward. We had that. It does not prove that The Beatles outsold Elvis overall, it just shows that their album sales were higher with regard to the SoundScan statistics.

    You constantly point to album sales which I attribute to your knowledge about Elvis being a single artist. Would Elvis single sales be counted for the best selling solo artist (RIAA) as well as his 2 Diamond albums, he would clearly surpass The Beatles with 190 Million US sales. Therefore, Garth Brooks is a very wise man to see all these statistics with a very real look.

    The SEM methold you obviously used to boost Beatles sales is VERY embarrassing. As I stated in my last post you deliberately falsify figures by doing so.

  252. bob says:

    Hey Patricia66,

    What are the two Elvis Presley albums that have achieved diamond status? According to the RIAA website Elvis has not achieved diamond status for any album.

    Those Kronemyer album figures are for the US only and support the figure of 176 million albums sold by The Beatles in the US according to the RIAA.

    If you look at my post #246 you will see the following:

    Total record sales (albums + EP’s + singles)

    The Beatles 352 + 15 + 137 = 504 million
    Elvis Presley 235 + 20 + 138 = 393 million

    They are worldwide figures.

    I did various other counting methods, not to boost The Beatles sales – they do not need it – but to show how the billion figure for The Beatles and Elvis was achieved and to demonstrate it is not realistic in actuality. Those various counting methods boosted the Elvis sales similarly – there was no discrimination.

    Neither The Beatles nor Elvis Presley nor any other artist has sold a billion records.

    Elvis does have the most RIAA accreditations but the very same RIAA states The Beatles have outsold Elvis Presley in albums by 176 million to 120 million.

    If you add in The Beatles US singles sales of about 60 million then The Beatles total in the US is about 236 million. That is more than the 190 million sales of albums and singles in the US for Elvis. Why did you not add The Beatles singles sales to their album sales?

    7.5 million EP sales are included in the 120 million Elvis album sales.

    I always said the Soundscan figures are from 1991 onwards but they just emphasise how many more albums The Beatles sold since 1991 than Elvis Presley.

    I do not deliberately falsify figures – please point out where I have. Nick Keene is not an independent source and therefore is not credible in my opinion.

    I think you should do some in depth research. If you did you would realize it is impossible for any artist to have sold a billion records. Do the maths.

    See my post #244 for world wide singles sales.

    See my post #245 and #246 for world wide album sales.

    Please provide countries where Elvis has outsold The Beatles.

    According to all independent sources The Beatles are the biggest selling artists of all time

  253. patricia66 says:

    @Bob
    Once again you did not answer with regard to my question where the Beatles are listet in SoundScan as having outsold everyone else. Why? Because you can’t. Soundscan just lists single albums that have sold most – nothing else. Elvis released many many different albums and singles, thus his total sales are diveded among those. Plus his management uses diverse distribution channels that were used already during his lifetime and that are not covered by the SoundScan retailers.

    It’s like Simon said already in post #215, you claim that you come up with figures that are of “neutral origin”, you simply rely on the fact that nobody tries to verify them. BTW, Wikipedia is only a good source, if the sources of the article have references one can check ;-).

    Furthermore, where are your worldwide sales figures from, source please! You keep mentioning that Keene is not a reliable source simply because his article was published on ElvisAustralia but keep on giving figures where no source can be found for. How pathetic.

    Kronemyer wasn’t even mentioned by you until I came up with it in an earlier post. And he sure blew the whistle on the claim that The Beatles sold more than 1 Billion. Sorry, but you are totally unbelievable when your are using the SEM method in one of your earlier posts by stating:

    “They surpass those figures by Keene which are unsourced. 1 EP equals 2 singles, 1 album equals 6 singles”

    If a source like Guinness uses SEM as well it doesn’t make this source an inch more believable – whereas Keene is very open about boosting of Elvis’ sales that unfortunaley happened in the early 1980s. I once more give the Keene/Kronemyer comparison from earlier to clarify how you operate in trying to prove something you really don’t prove because the sources you give don’t support it whereas Kronemyer and Keene can easily be checked on the Internet ;-) You can even ask Keene in the Q & A section to his article. Many people have done that – I call it being open to discussion. Here once more the Keene/Kronemyer comparison:

    ——–

    Overview about the Beatles sales in the US between 1964 and 2008 (source: David Kronemyer, former Vice President of Capitol Records, April 2009)

    1964 – 1985:
    75,000,000 (Millions rounded)

    Estimated sales between 1986 – 1990
    7,500,000 (Millions rounded)

    1991 – 2008:
    57,000,000 (Millions rounded)

    Beatles total 1964 – 2008 in the US: 139,000,000 (rounded again: 200,000,000)

    Summary of Elvis US Sales 1954-2008 (Millions rounded)
    RIAA certified sales:
    170,000,000 (albums + singles)
    Sales currently awaiting RIAA certification:
    10,000,000
    Sales above/between certification levels: 60,000,000
    Sales below RIAA minimum certification levels: 55,000,000
    Sun / RCA / Pickwick sales:
    45,000,000
    Excluded or disqualified RIAA sales – the 2 Diamond albums: 20,000,000 (Aloha + Christmas album)
    Estimated sales under licence:
    40,000,000

    Total: 400,000,000

    Source: Nick Keene, May 2009

    According to professionals in the music business the market share of the US in worldwide sales is approx. 40%, 60% for the rest of the world. If you take this into consideration, Elvis sold 1 Billion records worldwide between 1954 – 2008 whereas The Beatles sold 350,000,000 Million records worldwide 1964 – 2008.

    Elvis leads even if you consider him being around 10 years longer.

    ——-

    I highlighted the 2 Diamond albums in the list I refered to earlier.

  254. bob says:

    Hey patricia66,

    You talk rubbish. I mentioned the Kronemyer figures on post #311 of page 1 of this blog on March 11 2010 at 6.45pm. I have referred to that previously at post #165 on page 2 of this blog.

    For you to say I did not mention the Kronemyer figures before you mentioned them is untrue.

    Until you are prepared to be honest and acknowledge that I mentioned the Kronemyer figures before you, then any further dialogue is pointless.

    My source for those world wide sales figures is a chap who contributes to various blogs under the name MJDangerous. He has done detailed research over many years to get those figures and is highly respected for his knowledge of record sales.

    Do a bit of searching and see if you can get his figures. I should not have to do all the work for you.

    The Soundscan figures are for total album sales in the US from 1991. If you cannot find those by using Google then you must not be trying. Those Soundscan figures show The Beatles at #2 behind Garth Brooks for album sales since 1991.

    Please read my post #165 on page 2 of this blog very closely and you will see where to Google the Soundscan sales. After my post #165 you have been quiet – so reread it.

    So patricia66, I expect an acknowledgement that I mentioned the Kronemyer figures before you did. If you fail to acknowledge that you have no integrity and any further dialogue is pointless.

  255. Roy says:

    I think you have all overlooked the fundamentals here, do record sales really matter ? I would argue that without question the single most important entertainer this planet will ever experience is Elvis, period.

    Forget just record sales for now, Elvis’s social impact was massive cutting through all barriers whether racial or cultural and as Lennon said, ” Before Elvis there was nothing “. Elvis led the way for all others to follow, putting this into context it does not mater how big or grand a building maybe it relies on it’s foundations and Elvis underpinned modern music, many artist would never have existed without Elvis. Buddy Holly was influenced by Elvis, Buddy gave Bobby Vee his career, Cliff Richard started out as a poor Elvis impersonator, The Beatles were influenced by Buddy Holly you can see the links and this is just the obvious.

    Then the record sales, huge debate and one that may never be understood. You have solid data from the Beatles and the later artist but very sketchy information from 1954 to 1958 when Elvis sold records by the million, (A Gold disc was for 1 million not 500,000).

    Think also about the piracy sales in many countries at that time.

    Then following his death RCAs total record producing capacity failed to meet demand and they used competitors plants to fulfil orders, some big sales here !

    Then think about the media, Elvis started on 78’s, then 45’s, LP’s, cassette tapes and now CD’s so many songs will have sold huge numbers on all media.

    The Elvis brand in this period was recorded as selling 22 million dollars worth of goods, that’s a lot of money in those days so think about record sales in comparison.

    Would RCA sell under the title of “Artist of the Century” without some evidence, simply put nobody challenged this statement as they realized that as an overall entertainment package they were not in contention.

    So the Beatles, in comparison they were the first boy band and did not have the lasting impact of Elvis, how many Beatle impersonators are there out there compared to Elvis ones ? The Beatles at Shea stadium had 11,000 unsold seats and it is well known that Elvis never played to a single empty seat even maxing out Las Vegas at big ticket prices.

    Then some think MJ was big, a few big selling albums but he fell from grace and will be remembered for sleeping with kids, his dance moves can be traced to black artist in the fifties just like Elvis except MJ had more freedom of expression due to cultural change.

    Then popularity and memories, it is said that Elvis is only second in worldwide recognition to Mickey Mouse, and his home is the second most visited tourist attraction in the USA to the Whitehouse. So overall Elvis stood on his own stage above all others and his music and image have probably achieved immortality.

    So look at a bigger picture and not just sales.

  256. bob says:

    Hey Roy,

    The title of this blog is:

    “Is Elvis the biggest selling artist of all time?”

    That is why we are talking about sales.

  257. Paul says:

    Elvis Presley has had about 500 album releases since he died. He has 100s of single releases. When the Beatles are put at the top of RIAAs list of albums sold that means certified albums-not “all albums sold”
    Sony/BMG/RCA have provided sales proof of untold millions in the “500 album releases since Elvis died” but they are not counted because each individual album must meet the “RIAA certifiable standard” to be counted
    You can have 499,000 and until it hits the certified status it does not count.

    When single sales are included in the US total and the Worldwide totals that is where Elvis is the number one seller of all time.
    Elvis came from a time when single sales were the purpose of recording-albums were secondary-in the mid 60s that changed and albums were tops.
    Even though he came from the single era-he still is one of the top 3 certified album sellers.
    Sony/BMG/RCA have never claimed biggest album seller-they claim 1 billion units sold.

  258. Paul says:

    I want to point out that the IFIP did not have computers tracking the worldwide sales in the 1950s-it was not until the late 80s and on that much more accurate sales totals were available.
    Elvis sold the greatest long before this computer age.
    As a matter of fact the RIAA which has the most stringent sales rules of all still had a hard time getting accurate sales totals before the computer age.
    The month after Elvis died it was said in the New York Times that Elvis sold 20,000,000 records-and up to 200, 000,000 records world wide from August 77 into late 1978.
    So all totals by the IFIP, Soundscan, RIAA before the computer age are just their guesses.
    Even today-these organizations miss record club, Time Life, small mom and pop store sales which are records sold for ELvis.

  259. Simon says:

    Fans mark anniversary of Michael Jackson Death:
    Early this morning however only 30 fans lined up outside Forest Lawn cemetery to visit Michael Jackson’s grave site on the one-year anniversary of his death. Some had been there since 3am, even though the cemetery does not open until 8 a.m.

    This was a marked contrast in numbers to similar devoted fan tributes to Elvis Presley, where 50,000 fans have been known to gather at Graceland – Presley’s Memphis home – to mourn the singer’s passing decades after his death on August 16th 1977.

    There can only be ONE king and of course it’s Elvis. Not the Beatles, certainly not Whacko Jacko. Everyone who can think for himself and look around for himself it’s obvious, Elvis, the biggest selling artist of all times.
    Cheers,
    Simon

  260. bob says:

    Hey Paul,

    The RIAA and Soundscan do not guess. The RIAA audit sales information provided by record companies. Soundscan began in 1991 and sales are recorded by bar code at the point of purchase.

    The IFPI to the best of my knowledge do not guess. The IFPI liaises closely with recording industry associations in each country such as RIAA (US), BPI (UK), CRIA (Canada), RIAJ (Japan), ARIA (Australia), RIANZ (New Zealand) etc, liaises closely with record companies who provide information and carries out its own research (chart runs etc) to come to a “best estimate” of world wide sales figures.

    If the IFPI guesses, then by your own logic the billion units figure for Elvis Presley is also a guess, as this figure encompasses sales prior to the computer age.

  261. Simon says:

    You are wrong Bob, they have been making a mess of it for decades. If ALL sales were to be counted for, Elvis would be the undisputed number one in all sales lists. Unfortunately, most of them are corrupt.

    Billboard the bible of the music industry is the only one that can be trusted and of course as everyone knows they place Elvis at number one in sales. Trust Billboard people, they know. Soundscan and the likes are corrupt to the bone and mean nothing.

    Elvis the number one sales artist. The Beatles come wayyyyy behind at number two, still not too bad.

    Cheers,
    Simon

  262. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Billboard do not say Presley is number one in sales. They say he is the biggest selling solo artist. You are wrong as usual.

    I am still waiting for you to give a breakdown of the 1.5 billion records Presley supposedly sold world wide into singles sold and albums sold (with sources). If you can’t do that, then that 1.5 billion figure is obviously a figment of your imagination.

    So until you start making sense I will ignore your nonsense.

  263. Simon says:

    Bob,

    I have broken down all the facts here time and time again that prove without a shadow of a doubt that Elvis sold most records, I’m not gonna repeat myself, scroll up and you’ll see everything.

    For people who come here for the first time, I find it my obligation to tell that all this hype about the Beatles is just that, hype. They don’t sell mega numbers anymore, Elvis on the other hand still does, 33 years after his death. Any record store holds tons of Elvis cd’s and shelf space is expensive, if it didn’t sell it wouldn’t be there, that is exactly why there’s almost no Beatles stock, it doesn’t sell anymore. Same with DVD’s, Elvis DVD’s are everywhere, Beatles DVD’s only on the internet and specialties shops.
    That is all the proof one needs to know that Elvis is still and always will be the number one in sales.

    And yes, Billboard states Elvis is number one. But honestly Bob, anyone with good eye-sight can figure that out for himself. Have a happy!

    Cheers,
    Simon

  264. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    As usual you are talking rubbish. You have never given any album sales figures and singles sales figures. All you give is chart achievements and spout that “1.5 billion” figure without any supporting evidence.

    Just to show how much rubbish you talk, you say “they (The Beatles) do not sell mega numbers anymore, Elvis on the other hand still does, 33 years after his death.”

    Albums sold in the US since 1991: Source Soundscan

    The Beatles 60,370,000
    Elvis Presley 32,000,000

    As of 27 January 2010 sales of The Beatles 1 album in the US were 11,564,000; compared to 4,597,675 for Elvis’ 30 #1’s.

    Those facts refute your arguments. You have never provided any evidence to support your assertions and are obviously unable to. And yes, Soundscan is recognized as a reputable organisation within the recording industry.

    The Beatles outsold Elvis last year – even you agreed with that at your post #205 on this page. Contradicting yourself as usual.

    So Simon, how about a county by country breakdown of those supposed “1.5 billion sales”.

    No proof no credibility.

  265. Simon says:

    Soundscan is corrupt as you very well know Bob.
    Elvis has sold most records, period.
    Try to live with that fact.

    Your Beatles were good, but Elvis has sold more, life’s tough.

  266. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Soundscan is not corrupt – they have strict sales criteria. They are recognized within the recording industry as being reputable. Your rants are worthless.

    Still no sales figures, still no credibility.

  267. Gerrad says:

    @Simon

    Why is Soundscan corrupt?

  268. Simon says:

    Anyone with these chart successes obviously is also the number one sales artist.

    Also, according to Billboard, the bible of the music charts, Elvis Presley holds the following records in the U.S. charts: read them and shiver:

    Elvis: Most Top Ten Singles – 38

    Elvis: Most Charted Singles – 149

    Elvis: Most Top 40 Hits – 107

    Elvis: Most weeks at #1 – 80

    Elvis: Most consecutive # 1 hits: 10

    Elvis: Most consecutive Top Ten Hits: 30

    In the United Kingdom:

    Most #1 Hits: 21

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (131)

    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (120)

    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (95)

    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (66)

    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54). Runner-up: Madonna (44)

    Most weeks on singles chart: Elvis Presley (1277 wks). Runner-up: Cliff Richard (1166 weeks)

    His achievements are staggering, and 33 years after his death he is still selling them by the millions, only the real king of pop can pull that of!

    His real worldwide sales (not talking about Mickey Mouse Soundscan numbers here)are approaching the two BILLION mark. Now, that’s more than The Beatles, Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, The Rolling Stones and David Bowie’s sales combined!!
    There can only be one King, Elvis Presley.

    Cheers,
    Simon

  269. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Why do you always ignore the fact that The Beatles have more number 1 singles in the US than Elvis – 20/18.

    More number 1 albums in the US 19/10 and more number 1 albums in the UK 15/10.

    You distort the facts!

    The rest of your figures are chart figures and do not indicate record sales.

    You can never produce any sales figures to support your nonsense arguments.

    All independently audited sales figures have The Beatles as the biggest selling artists.

    I notice you did not answer Gerrad’s question about why Soundscan is corrupt. Obviously you can’t answer it and it is just another incorrect statement by you.

    As you like chart facts – how about these!

    Total weeks at #1 in the US album chart:

    The Beatles 127
    Elvis Presley 67

    That is a thrashing.

    So if Elvis has now sold nearly “2 billion” (that is absolute rubbish)) then state the number of singles sold and number of albums sold. Otherwise it is just a figment of your imagination.

    No sales figures, no credibility.

  270. Simon says:

    Hey Bob,

    Yhe only figment of imagination here is your conviction that the Beatles sold more than Elvis :)

    Everye SANE person knows Elvis sold most records, I guess you don’t belong in that category.

    When even McCartney states that Elvis has sold most records, who would you rather believe, corrupt Soundscan and the likes or your own idol? :)
    Think about that for the weekend.

    Have a happy!

  271. bob says:

    Hey Simon,

    Nonsense as usual. I have never heard McCartney say any such thing. There is nothing on Google about him saying that – only your statement.

    How about putting it on YouTube? If you had it on video or DVD you would put it on YouTube in a flash.

    No evidence, no credibility as usual.

  272. Gerrad says:

    This feels a bit pointless since everytime Bob or anyone else show real sales figures Simon ignore them and then start’s talking about stuff that has already been debunked a long time ago. Like the Paul McCartney says that Elvis is the biggest selling artist ever. Not that Soundscan is corrupt or more imortantly that Elvis is the biggest selling artist of all time.

    Isnt it really time to come to a verdict already?

  273. Bob says:

    Hey Gerrad,

    You are right. I will ignore Simon from now.

  274. Simon says:

    Good Bob, ignore the fact then also that Elvis is the number one sales artist, and that even McCartney says so.
    Hmmmmm who would I rather believe, Paul McCartney or Bob?
    Take a wild guess :)

    Elvis has had more number one singles in England by the way Bob, so that evens it out.

    Elvis’ sales: a staggering amount of almost 2 billion!!!! units. No artist can reach him.

    Have a good weekend all.

  275. Brian234 says:

    Elvis made 77 studio albums plus many other albums overall yet he doesn’t have a bestselling album in the world. His bestselling album was only 9 million copies ( Elvis Christmas album) according to the RIAA.
    Michael made only 10 studio albums alone, yet he has the most bestselling albums in the world = 5

    Thriller 110 million copies,
    Bad 30 million copies,
    Dangerous 32 million copies,
    History double album 20 million copies,
    Off the wall 20 million copies.

    The beatles only have 2 from 27 studio albums and all their other album overall worldwide. (sergeant pepper and the 1 albums).Pathetic
    MJ is the KING

    To have an album qualify as a best seller it has sell be 20 million copies plus.

    Biggest selling album of all time.
    Biggest selling double album of all time – history (more than pink Floyd the wall album worldwide)
    Biggest selling remix album of all time –blood on the dancefloor
    Greatest music video –thriller
    Most awarded entertainer of all time= 372 awards
    Greatest dancer
    Greatest performer
    Most music halls of fame inductions = 15

    biggest Recording contract in life ever – 890 million – March 21st 1991
    biggest selling recording contract in death ever – $250 – March 16th 2010
    American Music Awards Artists of the Century
    most Lifetime achievement awards ever
    World music awards best selling American artist
    Most Successful Concert Series Guinness Book Of World Records
    Greatest TV Audience Guinness Book Of World Records
    largest audience to view a music video: an estimated 500 million people – black and white music video
    Biggest Selling music Video ever – Thriller
    Music’s Highest-Paid Commercial Spokesperson – Guinness Book Of World Records
    Michael is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the most successful entertainer of all time. Chosen over Elvis and Beatles

    Michael Jackson most popular Artist Of The Millennium (last 1000 years) world music awards . Chosen over Elvis and Beatles

    MJ revolutionized and dominated all areas of music entertainment, from bestselling albums, to greatest dancer, to greatest music videos, to greatest onstage performances he is right up there he revolutionized everything. No one else can compete in all those areas.

  276. WayDown says:

    Hello people,

    It has been a loooong time I was gone from the forum. How are you guys (Simon, Bob, Gerrad, …and the new one Brian)?

    Brian, I’m sorry to remind you the title of the forum, we are looking for the best selling artist all time, and the problem for you is that MJ is far behind the Beatles and the King, even behind Madonna for some sources. I know that every MJ fan wants to talk about Thriller because that’s the only thing he has better than the King and the Beatles, in all other categories he loses. And for information, if MJ was as big as the King, he should sell more than 4 billion records. He started to be a worldwide star from the early 80’s. People (especially teens) had more money, the records were less expensive, the world population was multiplied by 2 (less than 3 billion in the 50’s), no internet, not even TV in many houses in America, then imagine the rest of the world! Anyway, Elvis became the first mega star of the planet in a period where he was insulted by white racist medias, albums were so expensive that people used to buy singles like “It’s now or never” which was sold more than 20 millions (that will explain why Elvis was not a big album seller). Anyway, I can’t explain to you the impact that had Elvis on the planet without all the advantages that had MJ, I’m from a tiny country from Asia and Elvis was more famous than MJ in the 80’s which was MJ’s prime period! A year after MJ’s death, medias in France (the national channels) did not even talk about MJ, just for information, the 15th of August, a French/German national channel programmed a 24 hours ELVIS, it was the first time that a channel was giving during 24 hours non stop a program on an artist (film, documentary, NBC concert, film, …), and this for the 33th anniversary of the death! Just meditate!

    Now for Beatles fan, the most important European channel TF1 (you must surely know) told in the 16th August 8pm news that the King has sold 2 billion records telling that he’s the best selling artist ever and by far. You know guys, it’s like Bing Crosby who has sold more than 500 million records but RIAA or other limited sourced don’t accept because of their limited counting methods, but any normal person knows that he did. That’s the same story with the King, many of his disk labels did not have contracts with RIAA and those records were not counted, other records were counted half because the counting methods were different in that period, stuff before 1958 were not counted by RIAA, … All these information is available on internet and explains in detail why the King is the best selling artist and by far.

    But I repeat again, I will personally never pay attention to these numbers, in my opinion the biggest interpret of all time was Elvis (especially in the 70’s) and the biggest music composers the Beatles.

  277. WayDown says:

    Oh just for the proofs.

    – Google TF1, and then reasearch Elvis Presley to listen to the 8pm news talking about the 2 billion sells
    – Google ARTE Elvis to see the 24 hours program

  278. Tony Vogler says:

    Jackson dead one year,no one cared,no record sales,no anything,how can that be,he was the greatest,or some on here would have you believe,,he sort of left a bad taste in everyones mouth,like obama,,just two guys that had a moment in the sun,,they will both be remembered the same,not at all!!!!! Just the facts man,,just the facts!

  279. Stephen says:

    You do all know that Michael Jackson has the Guinness World Record for being the most successful entertainer of all time from sales over 750 million. They don’t front or lie, and make sure they do accurate research. Thought this will put all this to rest being that you can’t really challenge the guiness world records and that was just 2006. Each year they challenge it and it always wins. Also he has the record for best selling album ever from Thriller with Guinness Record of over 150 million world wide. If you all would like, you can speak with the Guinness Headquarters.

  280. Stephen says:

    Oh and whoever said no one cared after Michael Jackson died must not own a TV or watched one in the whole month of July 2009 and after. Also His sales after death….He had the 3rd best selling album of 2009 with just one new song. And his documentary pulled in over 260 million making it the best selling concert documentary ever in history. The thing is, people seem to either read something or hear from someone and take it at face value, when you should go to multiple reliable sources and even question that. Then you will know that you know that you know its true.

  281. WayDown says:

    Stephen, just for information, RIAA missed lot of Elvis’s sales (too old) but they captures ALL the MJ sales, still our Peter Pan is placed far behind the Beatles & the King, … even behind Madonna! And you’re lucky that RIAA couldn’t count Sinatra’s and B Crosby’s sales, otherwise our self proclaimed king would me in 6th position :o()

    Peter Pan is not in the same planet as the Beatles and the King. And I repeat, no national channel in France talked about MJ in July, only cable channels… If you have a friend in France you can verify easily what I’m saying, just ask him ;o)

  282. stephen says:

    The fact you call him Peter Pan shows ur agenda and bias. Man I love Elvis and the Beatles but I’m stating what’s real and not pokin fun at them. Fox news and 7 other US news broadcasts over there in France. They saw it, just confirmed it. And I think you should call Guiness. Are you upset that his kids own the Beatles songs?

  283. WayDown says:

    Hello Stephen,
    I was clear in my answer, no national FRENCH channel talked about him on July. And this is the absolute truth…

    And I’m not upset that Peter Pan owns the Beatles songs because in 50 years people will always talk about the Beatles but no one will remember the “king of pop” ;o)

    For the Guinness, I will not call them, just look at the RIAA’s results (all other entities are based on) and you will understand that Peter Pan is not in the same galaxy :o) That’s sad for him because RIAA has captured ALL his sales (too recent) and you can wait for no new surprises in the future. Can’t say the same for the King, Sinatra, Crosby whom suffered a lot from the RIAA’s counting methods.

    Oh yesterday I watched “Liva las vegas” on the TV, it was even not an anniversary date for Elvis! ;o)

    “That’s the way it is” !

  284. Gavin Kelly says:

    Here is a deffinate way to put a stop to all this MJ and EP debates. For many, Many years after Elvis Presley’s death, some 60,000 to 100,00 peole show up to pay their respects to the KING! of rock n roll during the Candle light vigil. I don’t see such a thing for MJ. I do rememeber Lisa Marie making a statement that people need to come celebrate MJ’s death with her. When Elvis Presley Died, the whole world STOPPED. When MJ died, it was covered on TV, no crowd ever topped the crowd that came forth after hearing The King of Rock n Roll died. Elvis Presley by FAR is the BEST Entertainer in the WORLD. No ONE will ever can EVER compare themselves to EP. Talks about MJ selling out shows.. EP was in 15 different cities a NIGHT! his shows would be complete sell-outs. Aloha from HAWAII was syndicated LIVE all over the WORLD..To this DAY NO ARTIST has EVER accomplished that. So enough with the debate. Elvis Presley is the KING!

  285. Speed Demon says:

    MJ is the most successful entertainer of all time, according to Guinness World Records (2006.) MJ was recognized as the “Best Selling Artist Ever,” by IFPI in 1996. MJ signed the biggest music contract in history, in 1991. MJs Estate did the same in 2010, proving his durability. According to Forbes, MJ out-earned the remaining dead celebrities on their list of highest-earning dead celebrities list of 2010. According to Nokia’s Ovi music store, MJ is the most (legally) downloaded artist in the world, ever. American Music Awards titled MJ as the “Artist of the Century,” in 2002. MJ is the most awarded artist of all time. He has also received more Guinness World Records than any other artist. MJ is the only act to be inducted into Rock and Roll, Songwriters and Dance Halls of Fame.

    CNN and Songlines named MJ as the #1 Global Musical Icon, in 2010. MJ was ranked as the greatest solo artist ever, by VH1, in 2010. MJ has been inducted into more Halls of Fame, than any other musical act. MJ has the best-selling album and music video of all time. In the year since MJ died, his Estate had earned over $1 billion, according to Billboard.MJ was cited as the “Most Popular Artist in the History of Show Business, ” by Vanity Fair, in 1990. In 1989, MJ was responsible for the biggest-selling album ever (Thriller,) the biggest-selling single ever (We Are The World) and the highest grossing Tour ever (Bad World Tour,) earning him the title, the King of Pop.

  286. WayDown says:

    The title “King of pop” wasn’t earned but proclaimed !

    For the awards, no one pays a sh… for that. The king was inducted into 4 music halls of fame. Who cares?!! How many records did your idol sell? That’s make him popular and not sh**ty comments from some organizations… MJ is the 5th best selling artist all time after the King, the Beatles, Sinatra, and B Crosy. Which is not bad for a junk playback electronic music “artist”!

    P.S. I’m not even sure about the 5th rank because Madonna is not far from 300 million too.

  287. Speed Demon says:

    In my and many others estimations, the KoP title was earned.

    Guinness World Records named MJ as the 1st Entertainer to sell over 100 million albums, outside the US, in 2006. According to IFPI, MJ sold over 100 million albums outside the US. This was also recognized in 2006. Neither Presley, Sinatra or Crosby have been acknowledged as such. The Beatles received the IFPI-recognition in 2008. Where is your proof of your claim that MJ is 5th on the best-selling artist list?

    As regards to Madonna, MJ has outsold her according to RIAA, Soundscan (both albums and singles sales) and IFPI.

  288. Speed Demon says:

    MJ has sold 35 million albums worldwide in the year since he died, according to Billboard Magazine. Soundscan reported that MJ sold over 8 million albums and over 12 million singles in 2009. MJ has sold an additional 25 million singles outside the US, according to Sony. Billboard Magazine reported that these sales are unprecedented and that there is nothing to compare to it, in audited musical history.

  289. WayDown says:

    According to RIAA:

    MJ : Total available certified sales: 150.8 million
    Madonna : Total available certified sales: 156.5 million

    Sorry I was wrong, MJ is not in 5th position but 6th!

    Otherwise, RIAA places first the Beatles and second the King. But unfortunately, still many many King’s records are not captured by RIAA because some of them are too old, some of them are labels who didn’t work with RIAA, some of them were not counted because RCA records didn’t pay RIAA for that… Anyway, Elvis suffers a lot from RIAA’s counting method but still he is placed 2nd. Not bad!!!

    Just to meditate. RIAA counted certifications in 15 countries for MJ who is still behind the king who has only 8 countries certifications! 12 countries for the Beatles… As I said, when they count some day all the stuff sold by the King (specially records and not albums as it’s currently the case!) and in every big countries, that will really hurt! Even the Beatles will be outsold and by far :o(

  290. Speed Demon says:

    Thats not according to RIAA. According to RIAA, MJ has sold 69.5 million albums and Madonna has sold 64 million albums. Soundscans lists also reveals that MJ has higher albums and digital singles sales, in the US. That figure (which you probably have gotten from Wikipedia) is inaccurate. MJ has at least 220 million total available certified sales worldwide. If you request me to, I can break it down for you.

    You mention missing sales. Well, that can be said of MJ too. None of his Motown albums has been audited by RIAA for certification and Motown has never revealed the sales of the albums and singles.

  291. Alison says:

    Hey Bob,

    your silly figures don’t prove anything about the Beatles being more popular than Elvis. They might have been more popular in America, but this not the case worldwide, where Elvis sold over 1.3 billion. 300 million ahead of the Beatles. I might have expected soemone like yourself to come out with comments like that, being a typical Beatles fanbiy. Now crawl back under the rock you came from.

  292. Alison says:

    That should ready Fanboy.

  293. robby says:

    if true nummbers could ever be counted correctly, Elvis would be so far ahead it would make everyone else look silly. the beatles, not MJ would be the only ones close to him

  294. robby says:

    mjs bad tour is no longer the biggest tour ever, the stones and Madonna both beat it

  295. WayDown says:

    “Speed Demon”, sorry to tell you this but I copied the information below this morning from the official RIAA site (US sales). Just for remark, the King was a big record seller and the following numbers are based on albums. But still the King is second by lot of missing uncounted albums! Not bad for the King! What will be if they count records and all his uncounted stuff one day!!!

    Artist Certified Units in Millions
    BEATLES, THE 177
    PRESLEY, ELVIS 129.5
    BROOKS, GARTH 128
    LED ZEPPELIN 111.5
    EAGLES 100
    JOEL, BILLY 79.5
    PINK FLOYD 74.5
    STREISAND, BARBRA 71.5
    AC/DC 71
    JOHN, ELTON 70
    JACKSON, MICHAEL 69.5

    Long live the King

  296. Speed Demon says:

    Yes, not bad. But that’s just US sales, as you note. I mentioned this in one of my previous posts; According to Guinness World Records, MJ is the 1st Entertainer to sell over 100 million albums outside the US. This was recognized in 2006. IFPI also recognized MJ as selling over 100 million albums, in 2006. Elvis has never been recognized with either of these bodies as such.

    There is simply no way to know who is actually the biggest selling act ever.

  297. WayDown says:

    “Speed Demon”, you know better than me that the biggest markets are the US & Europe for record/album sales. If you are first in those countries (US, UK, Germany, France,…), then you are the best selling act! Don’t tell me that sales in Africa will save MJ!

    By the way, even in Africa Elvis is King!

  298. Fred Aistair says:

    297 and 298. We are getting confused by sales and certifications.
    For instance outside the USA the IFPI was set up well after Elvis died and the Beatles broke up. Neither Elvis nor the Beatles have sought to have their back catalogue certified by the IFPI which also does not have the status of the RIAA.
    Also in the US 3/4’s of Elvis catalogue remains uncertified for a multitude of reason. Which is not the case with either the Beatles or Michael Jackson.
    Hence we have confusion and arguements.
    Never mind lets enjoy all their music instead. Jackson, The Beatles and Elvis all gave a great deal at different times to the world of popular music.

  299. Joeb says:

    Been listening to this rubbish about the beatles sales for some time, since they first isue the “billion singles equivalents” claim way back to counter the “1 Billion records sold” statement from RCA. RIAA is used as the primary source by all other sources, so lets look at that.

    Beatles have album certifications equivalent to 177 million. Elvis has album certifications equal to 129.5 million. I don’t have the figures for singles, but Elvis is waaay out ahead for singles. These are not sales figures, they are certifications. Sales are 1 factor used in determining certification.

    Gold is for sales between 500,000 and 999,999.
    Platinum is for sales between 1,000,000 and 1,999,999
    Multi-platinum for sales over 2,000,000. Multi-platinum albums will on avergae have sales of about 500,000 above the certification level.

    For the above categories beatles have 46, 41, 26 respectively.
    Elvis has 86, 48, 25 respectively.
    Elvis has a over 400 album titles which have not yet been certified due to retail methods, poor record keeping and special criteria. RIAA started in 1958 and sales prior to then are grossly understated for all artists. Bing Crosby sold 2.5 million albums according to RIAA.
    Anyone with a basic knowledge os stats will realize that the data from the beatles certification awarded would represent probably about 198.75 million in album sales, while the Elvis certification represents probably 163.1 million. This still leaves the balance of over 400 Elvis album titles to be accounted for. Some of these are multi-million selling albums which do not qualify based on RIAA rules, others are much lower selling albums. Then you have albums like Aloha from Hawaii which lost credit for 5 platinum certifications because the double album was put on a single disc when it became a CD (the norm for double albums was to put them out as 2 disc albums to maintain double certification).
    While most of Elvis US sales will probably never be certified it is probable that the ongoing certification of Elvis past sales will see him overtake the beatles for album certification. When singles are taken into account there is no contest.

  300. Joeb says:

    Tying error in last post:
    “Beatles have album certifications equivalent to 177 million. Elvis has album certifications equal to 139.5 million.”

    should be:
    “Beatles have album certifications equivalent to 177 million. Elvis has album certifications equal to 129.5 million.”

  301. Josh says:

    even if elvis’s album sales are higher in the US, every other country has the beatles as higher overall

  302. josh says:

    @joeb

    World wide singles sales:

    The Beatles

    Country Millions

    USA 60.90
    Mainland Europe 27.35
    UK 20.90
    Japan 7.04
    Australia 3.20
    Canada 2.73
    ROW (approx) 15.00

    Total 137.12

    Elvis Presley

    Country Millions

    USA 80.80
    Mainland Europe 14.21
    UK 20.91
    Japan 1.30
    Australia 3.29
    Canada 2.18
    ROW (approx) 15.00

    Total 137.69

    elvis is ahead in singles but by very little, and 170million album sales for the beatlees, and 120million for Elvis is just in the US, in every other country the beatles have outsold Elvis by millions on albums.

  303. WayDown says:

    josh, what the hell are you talking about! When I was an Elvis fan in Asia in the 80’s, I didn’t even know what a beatle was ! Elvis is much more worldwide than the Beatles! What I like is people who have never been outside US or UK giving their opinion on other countries :o)

    And please, meditate again about the single sales! Don’t copy/past from Google ;o)

  304. robby says:

    why are so many people talking about the beatles? this is supposed to be about the greatest selling solo artist of all time. like I said before, if true numbers could ever be counted correctly, there is no doubt ELVIS would be way ahead of everyone

  305. vince says:

    Its funny how everyone seems to like to find ways to not count certain years of Elvis sales…or finding a way to acheive dishonest counts…F-A-C-T ..ELVIS IS the #1 record seller of all time, by far!!!.. Do your fact checking..find out about the different formats.. there are many tricks different places use to discredit Elvis. Things that they do to get false numbers.. you will find Elvis, far and away in the lead..Beatles not even close. Its almost like politics…no honesty.

  306. Speed Demon says:

    MJ has now over 250 million certified and verified album and single sales. This is based on figures by the RIAA, Soundscan, IFPI, OCC, Billboard and Guinness WR. Remarkably, this figure excludes all of MJs single sales outside the US and the UK, as well as MJs Motown album and single sales for the period 1971-1991, in the US (RIAA has never audited his Motown records for certification.)

  307. WayDown says:

    MJ not in the same Galaxy to be compared to the King or even to the Beatles. He should be compared to artists like Elton John or Madonna…

    By the way, Madonna has sold more than MJ (based on RIAA).

  308. Speed Demon says:

    How does MJ not belong in the same “galaxy” as Elvis or the Beatles? Saleswise, they are in the same “galaxy.”

    By the way, MJ has sold more than Madonna, based on figures by RIAA and Soundscan.

  309. robby says:

    If anyones record sales are exagerated, it’s MJ’s. There is no way he sold 750 million with 10 albums. He’s not even in the top ten according to the RIAA. The only people who really believe he is the biggest seller are the REV. Al Sharpton and Chris Tucker.

  310. WayDown says:

    According to RIAA, MJ is far behind the king & the Beatles. Even behind Madonna and many others. He’s very lucky because B Crosby & F Sinatra could also beat him but RIAA didn’t capture all their records (too old, as for many Elvis’s records during his best selling years).

    “That’s the way it is” :o)

  311. Speed Demon says:

    The 750 million estimation isn’t based solely on his 10 studio albums. It includes all of his singles, compilations, remixes etc. IFPI named MJ as the Best Selling Male Artist of the Millennium in 2000. So its not only Sharpton and Tucker who believes it…

  312. Speed Demon says:

    For the record: none of MJs Motown albums or singles as been audited by RIAA for certification. MJ has still sold more albums than Madonna according to RIAA. Also, RIAA hasn’t updated the digital single sales of his. That’s the only reason why Madonna is recognized as a higher singles seller by RIAA. Putting RIAA and Soundscan figure together, puts MJs single sales in the US, to over 40 million units. That is more than Madonna’s RIAA+Soundscan total.

  313. WayDown says:

    Sorry to tell you this, but when we talk about certified sells (and not estimations), the two giants are far ahead.

    There are also some certification made (like RIAA for usa) in other developed countries and the result is the same. When we add together all the certified sells, the two giants are still far ahead. Although Elvis suffers a lot from this (he has the lowest percentage of countries certifying his old sales)!

  314. FredAistair says:

    SpeedDemon – what are you on ? Speed!

    from the WSJ

    In the last three years of his life, long after the release of his final original album, Michael Jackson’s career album sales took a curious leap.

    For many years, Mr. Jackson’s lifetime sales tally typically was reported at 200 million albums world-wide. But in late 2006, news articles began putting the number at 750 million, a figure that became part of the popular lore as Mr. Jackson was attempting a comeback. In the last few weeks, it has popped up in obituaries and retrospectives.

    So how did the sales figure nearly quadruple?

    That figure first got legs in late 2006, when Raymone Bain, a publicist for Mr. Jackson at the time, touted in a letter to Jackson fan clubs that sales had “exceeded over 750 million units.”

    I am not sure if any of you can smell it – but it’s
    B–l S–t.
    MJ’s sales right through to day including albums and singles globably are barely likely to break the 300 million barrier. Believe nothing else.
    Talanted yes, but more hyped than a Helium ballon

  315. josh says:

    @waydown

    “josh, what the hell are you talking about! When I was an Elvis fan in Asia in the 80’s, I didn’t even know what a beatle was !”

    whats your point? were are NOT talking about fame, were talking about album sales. and the beatles sold way more in japan, the biggest music market in asia. also did you live in every Asian country? how do you know Elvis was more popular in every Asian country?

    “Elvis is much more worldwide than the Beatles!”

    maybe, doesn’t mean he has higher album sales, in fact he doesn’t.

    “What I like is people who have never been outside US or UK giving their opinion on other countries :o)”

    that’s what you are doing for the rest of asia.

    elvis & the beatles are not popular in africa, so the biggest 3 places they are popular is asia, Europe and north america. now the beatles have sold more in Europe and north America for sure. I also think they have sold more in asia, they have sold 7million singles compared to Elvis who has only sold 1million in japan, and Japan like I said is the biggest market in asia.

  316. josh says:

    waydown please answer me these 2 questions ok?

    1. if the beatles released the same amount of albums as Elvis would we still be having this discussion?

    2. how come the beatles have sold nearly twice as many albums in the past 20years?

  317. WayDown says:

    Hello “josh”, I have never told that the Beatles didn’t sell 1 billion, I was not talking about sales (even if it’s the title or this forum). I was talking about fame. Even if I don’t represent the entire Asia, I was in 3 different countries there and the result was the same, Elvis was much more popular than the Beatles (almost unknown), people in those countries didn’t know the Beatles (that’s the truth, believe it or not!). And sales in many countries in Asia doesn’t mean anything. Elvis could have 500 million fans in India and sell only 10 albums, the others 100 million being copies! I was a huge Elvis fan in Asia but I had no original album! Now that I’m in France I have more than 50 original albums!

    Now for your first question, releasing many albums was(is) not an advantage for Elvis! They are releasing thousands of albums by changing his picture and reselling the same songs without remastering them or doing a little work on it. The result is that Elvis is having hundred of albums sold for less then 500000 and so 0 for RIAA! These thieves are only interested by the money and not the King’s reputation! Once they did a job with a song called “little less conversation” in 2002 and you remember the result, No1 in more than 20 countries… Elvis is a diamond (specially his unknown 70’s work) but unfortunately unexploited.

    For your second question. The answer in in the first answer. The Beatles (like Elvis) have still millions of fans in US and Europe, as they (the Beatles) are remastring all their stuff and reselling it, that generates millions of sells. With Elvis, it’s very different as I explained ahead. Millions are sold but not counted because divided in hundred of similar albums. As a fan, I can’t hide my anger!

    The King’s career is not well managed… For example, listen to the song “The sound of your cry” on youtube, this is a lost song that nobody heard about it (even some fans!), he has dozens of diamonds like that in the 70’s! Sad!!!

  318. Fred Aistair says:

    Hey Josh

    1. If the Beatles had released as many albums as Elvis they would have added very little extra to their sales total.
    Most of the additional Elvis albums are outtakes/compliations/recompilations/reissues and the like.
    2. And the Beatles have not sold double the albums in the last 20 years.
    3. And let me ask you a question – according to Billboard in January 1978 an editorial noted that Elvis had sold some 35 Million albums since his death in August 1977 in North America. I am not aware of any comparable statistic for any other artist dead or alive.

    By the way this is no anti Beatle posting. I am full of admiration for the way their catalogue has been looked after amd marketed and their sustained song writing skills bettered in my opinion only by Bob Dylan.

  319. Speed Demon says:

    Sorry to inform you WayDown, but the Guinness World Records has recognized MJ as being the first entertainer to have sold over 100 million albums outside the US. Also, the IFPI (the international equivalent to the RIAA) has verified MJs album sales to over 100 millions outside the US. Both of these recognitions were given in 2006. Elvis has not been recognized by either of these bodies as such. So can you back up your claim that Elvis and the Beatles have higher certified sales outside the US? Dont think so…

  320. Speed Demon says:

    I never said that I believed in the 750 million figure, FredAistair (Fred Astaire I presume.) Like the 1 billion figures of the Beatles and Elvis, it was probably created for PR-related reasons, though I find it more likely that MJ sold 750 million units, than Elvis and the Beatles selling 1 billion units.

  321. Speed Demon says:

    As for who’s the most popular artist worldwide; MJ was recently voted #1 on a poll conducted by CNN and Songlines of who’s the top global musical icons.

  322. Tom says:

    No Speed Demon no! All other entities must be based on certified sales. You can check for certified sales in US & Europe and you will see that MJ is far behind (in 5th position). And sales in Africa will not save him I guess ;o)

    Guinness World Records changed many times their version by saying in the 90’s (I have the book) that Elvis was the biggest selling act and now MJ… I think that MJ’s sales from 1993 to 2011 were not extraordinary to take the first place. Guinness World Records is not a good source. You must look for certified sales, certifies means proofs and not bulls, not Sony marketing, not RCA marketing….

  323. FredAistair says:

    Speed Demon

    What is it that you don’t understand ?
    The body that issues certification outside the USA came into existance after the death of Elvis and the break up of the Beatles and does not have the recognitation or status of the RIAA. There has been no effort made on the part of Elvis’s record company to seek retrospective certification outside the USA.
    Certification is a good guide to sales if the overwhelming majotity of ones catalogue has been certified. And that indeed is the case for Jackson in and outside the USA and for the Beatles in the USA. But in Elvis’s case the majority of his catalogue remains uncertifed both in and outside the USA for a multitude of reasons.
    Now be a good boy and go home to mummy.

  324. Speed Demon says:

    Tom, if Elvis sales are so superior to MJs, in Europe, then why does MJ have two of the ten best selling albums in the two biggest market in Europe, the UK and Germany. I think its safe to say that MJ is a bigger seller in Europe, than Elvis.

    As for certified sales… The IFPI base their certifications on shipments, just as the RIAA does. Only Soundscan and the OCC counts actual retail sales. But both IFPI and RIAA certifications are generally regarded as sales.

  325. Speed Demon says:

    The IFPI is responsible for music certifications in many countries. If it wasn’t reliable or trustworthy, I would doubt that so many countries depend on them for counting sales. So your claim that the IFPI doesn’t have the recognition or status that the RIAA has, is unsubstantiated.

    Also, far from all of MJs records have been certified. Even in the US, the RIAA has never audited MJs Motown sales for certification. Neither has it updated recent album and single sales of MJ. So it must be assumed that a big chunk of MJs record sales still haven’t been yet certified, espeically when it comes to the 3rd world.

  326. josh says:

    google “Mariah Carey 3rd Best Selling Act in Soundscan Era” you will see the best selling artists in America over the last 20years, the beatles have sold 56million only beaten by garath brooks. in Europe the beatles have sold 22million more records than MJ who has 70million, and 50million more than Elvis who only has 42million records sold in europe.

  327. Tom says:

    One of the most important records over the years has been which act could obtain the most UK Chart toppers. Here is a list of all the acts to gain 5 or more UK chart toppers:
    21 – Elvis Presley
    17 – The Beatles
    14 – Westlife
    14 – Cliff Richard
    13 – Madonna
    12 – The Shadows [1]
    11 – Take That
    9 – ABBA
    9 – Spice Girls
    8 – Oasis
    8 – The Rolling Stones
    7 – Eminem
    7 – Elton John
    7 – George Michael
    7 – Kylie Minogue
    7 – McFly
    7 – Michael Jackson

    Even in UK Elvis is King. As I said before, Africa will not save MJ.

  328. Tom says:

    MJ = Marketing

  329. Tom says:

    Most weeks on UK Singles Chart by decade:

    1950s
    1. Elvis Presley 298 weeks
    2. Frankie Laine 268 weeks
    3. Pat Boone 239 weeks
    4. Lonnie Donegan 213 weeks

    1960s
    1. The Shadows 631 weeks
    2. Cliff Richard 537 weeks
    3. Elvis Presley 444 weeks
    4. The Beatles 333 weeks

    1970s
    1. Elvis Presley 331 weeks
    2. Elton John 223 weeks
    3. Diana Ross 220 weeks
    4. Paul McCartney/Wings 216 weeks

    1980s
    1. Shakin’ Stevens 246 weeks
    2. Michael Jackson 222 weeks
    3. Madonna 219 weeks
    4. Madness 218 weeks

    All-time total weeks on chart
    1. Elvis Presley 1,152 weeks
    2. Cliff Richard 1,010 weeks
    3. The Shadows/Drifters 769 weeks
    4. Diana Ross 570 weeks
    5. The Beatles 432 weeks
    6. Frank Sinatra 428 weeks
    7. Elton John 402 weeks
    8. David Bowie 400 weeks
    9. Stevie Wonder 398 weeks
    10. Paul McCartney/Wings 359 weeks

    Where is MJ ?

    Most Top 75 hits: Elvis Presley (152)
    Most Top 40 hits: Elvis Presley (128)
    Most Top 20 hits: Elvis Presley (100)
    Most Top 10 hits: Elvis Presley (77)
    Most Top 5 hits: Elvis Presley (54)

    Where is MJ?

    It’s between the 2 giants. No place for children!

  330. FredAistair says:

    Josh – Re the scoundscan era. The Beatles may have sold more than Elvis, but the gap is a lot closer than you think.
    For instance Graceland has 1/2 million plus visitors a year since the early 1980s, but the outlet stores there are not covered by scoundscan. They don’t report data from the Christian stores where Elvis Gospel and Xmas records sell well, nor does Scoundscan cover the sales of 30 plus 3rd party licensed companies who have been selling Elvis compilations since the 70’s, nor the sales through record clubs. All areas of significant sales before and through the Soundscan period. This proliferation of sales points is also one and just one of the reasons why Elvis sales are substantially under certified and under reported in the Soundscan era.
    Not one of these circumstances is applicable to Jackson or the Beatles or other acts.

  331. FredAistair says:

    Speed Demon – The IFPI does not and I repeat not have the status of the RIAA. It is like comparing the Brits to the Oscars. And you seem not to digest the fact that the came into being after the death of Elvis and the splt of the Beatles and both these acts and Elvis in particular has not shouth retrospective certification.

    In 2007 an article still relevant gave a good idea into the issues involved.

    “The number of hit albums an artist had is an important measure of the artist’s success and popular impact, though it is by no means the only measure. Elvis Presley had a worldwide impact on popular music and culture, as shown by his success on album charts throughout the world. His international success is even more remarkable considering that except for three 1957 Canadian concerts, Elvis did not perform outside of the United States.

    Another measure of an artist’s popular impact is sales. While Elvis is recognized by many in the recording industry as the best selling artist of all time, the RIAA, the US recording industry’s official certifiing agent for sales, stirred up controversy in November 2007 when it announced that country singer Garth Brooks had become the best selling solo artist in US history.

    Elvis Presley Enterprises has disputed the RIAA’s claim, pointing out several omissions in the RIAA’s figures. The RIAA bases its claim on album sales only, and does not include single sales in determining the highest selling solo artist, despite the fact that the RIAA also certifies single sales. While Elvis’ album sales are significant, his single sales were also significant. During much of Elvis’ career in the 1950’s and 1960’s, single sales were considered the primary market for the industry, while albums were a secondary market. It was not until the late 1960s and early 1970s that albums became the primary market for the industry.

    RIAA does not certify sales of less than 500,000 units for albums and singles. Elvis has had numerous albums and singles which have sold hundreds of thousands of units each but have not reached the 500,000 threshold. Taken together, these could add up to tens of millions in total sales that are not recognized by the RIAA.

    RIAA sales certifications are not automatic. The record company must pay a fee and request an audit from the RIAA in order to certify sales. During Elvis’ life, RCA submitted few of Elvis’ recordings for RIAA certification. Instead of paying for RIAA certification, RCA and other companies would simply award their own “Gold Record” to artists based on their internal sales figures. As a consequence, some of Elvis’ early sales information has been lost. RCA and BMG have researched archives and old files in an effort to reconstruct Elvis’ sales figures. This has led to Elvis receiving numerous RIAA certifications posthumously.”

    If you vist Graceland you will see the many hundreds of internally certified “Gold Records”.

  332. josh says:

    FredAistair

    well look at the beatles 1 album and the elvis’s greatest hits album (i forgot what is was called) they were both released in a similar time period, elvis’s album sold 12million worldwide, the Beatles 30million.

    for argument sake lets say Elvis has sold more in the US, pretty much every other country the beatles have sold more in. the beatles music was released on iTunes and in 1 week they sold 2million singles, and 450,000 albums.

    I think the beatles have sold more than Elvis, you think Elvis has, but their is no doubt which of the 2 sells more today.

  333. josh says:

    tom

    chart positions do not mean album sales! just because Elvis has the most number 1’s doesn’t mean he has sold more.

  334. Speed Demon says:

    Josh, the 70 million figure of MJs sales in Europe can’t be accurate. In the UK alone, MJ has sold over half that figure and the UK music market share doesn’t equate to 50% of Europe’s music sales.

  335. Speed Demon says:

    Tom, as Josh points out; just cause Elvis has more #1s on the charts, as well as more weeks, doesn’t mean he has actually sold more. Back in the 50s and early 60s, it was much easier to obtain #1 on the charts and stay there, as record sales were relatively low compared to record sales in the 80s and the 90s, in addition to leaner competition back then.

  336. Speed Demon says:

    Fred… The IFPI is an objective measurer of music sales. Oscars (Grammys?) and Brit awards are based on subjective and selective judgement. Its illogical to campare it to each other.

    The RIAA is by no means faultless. Their certification system has over the years changed and been inconsistent. If you add the rule of counting double albums twice, you can safely say that the RIAA aren’t particularly a reliable body of reference. Could you give me any reason for why IFPI “doesnt have the status as the RIAA,” cause so far you havent…

  337. josh says:

    speed demon

    the 70million in Europe for MJ was albums sales.

  338. FredAistair says:

    Speed Demon – I am not claiming that the IFPI are dishonest ar anything like that. I am saying that as they do not have the status of the RIAA and they don’t and came into being in more recent times.
    Many of the older acts like Elvis are not bothered with making the effort to seek retrospective certification of their back library. This will be partly because of the effort involved in reconstructing the data. Partly because they may not be complete or exixt in the form necessary. Consider the issue with precomputerised records. Consider the industry practice of self sertification in the past.
    You could argue that self certification is not independant and that’s true, but the other side of that coin is that the record company would have to pay up additional royalties to singer, song writer and publisher if they exaggerated. If anything then inhouse gold discs would likely understate sales.
    There are literaly hundreds and hundreds of these on display at Ggraceland.

    To summaries.

    The IFPI does not have the status of the Riaa.

    You cannot simply use the IFPI nor the RIAA to state these are the absolute sales of an artist, unless there are no significant exclusions from certification.

    There has been virtually no effort made to have the IFPI certify Elvis’s back library. It isn’t worth it and the RIAA only covers a fraction of Elvis library.

  339. Tom says:

    I don’t know who wrote that having more weeks on charts doesn’t mean anything… I’m sorry to tell you that you’re wrong ! We can’t stay on charts by selling only 2 records a day !!! Elvis had the best longevity on charts and did almost dominate it for 3 decades !!! I’m ok with you to tell that someone can spend only a week on charts and sell 10 millions, ok for that, but dominating the charts for 3 decades means much either! Elvis even in his worst years was on the charts, imagine an artist who has dominated the charts 30 years and in his worst years he had still have some songs on the charts!

    The problem with Elvis is that he had RCA and a manager who could sell his mother for 1$, then nothing was done to certify his records (they did even not pay RIAA for some period!). And for his current career, it is even worst. As a huge fan, I didn’t even know that the Elvis on Tour was released on BlueRay! And it is not yet commercialized in Europe! Several hundred of thousands of fans went these last years to watch Elvis the Concert, this means that Elvis has still a huge fan base in Europe, but no new interesting product to buy, no new stuff, …The last effort was done in 2002 with Little less Conversation and that was No1 in more than 20 countries! I don’t know who is taking care of his career, Sony? RCA? His stupid daughter?…But they are doing a very bad job!

  340. pete says:

    All of the talk of sales is really just about people trying to figure out who is “the best ever”. If you want to compare apples to apples, it should be noted that the Beatles accomplished what they did in about 8 years of recording. Give them a couple decades and they would have about tripled Elvis’ sales and #1 hits. Also, I’m sorry to Michael Jackson fans but there was a much larger population in the 80s than in the 50s/60s, so in relative terms his sale figures are elevated. Elvis and Michael Jackson are icons, and great singers in their own rights, but the Beatles were musical geniuses that put up sales figures in 8 years that all of the other big artists (Elvis, Jackson, Sinatra, Madonna) couldn’t accomplish in decades of recording. Sure, those who grew up with Elvis and MJ don’t like to think of them as being second to anyone, but look, all of the best industry statistics available say the Beatles are the biggest sellers. If you doubt the stats you’re entitled to live in hope of the unknown, but don’t try to rewrite history without a pen. At the end of the day whether you want to compare industry stats, apples to apples projections (ie, sales figures per year of existence),or sales figures in the last two decades, they all point to the Beatles as the top sellers, and not by a small margin. You don’t make up for 50 million in sales by a few missing counts. Do I respect Elvis’ accomplishments. Highly. Lets face it, the Beatles would not have formed without Elvis’ influence, and they love Elvis too. But sometimes, the students become better than the teachers. So to the Elvis fans, enjoy his music and his accomplishments, as I do, but please stop trying to change the figures and facts because they don’t sit “emotionally” well with you. Just as all of us have to acknowledge that as time passes, the memories of all these great artists will fade, and they will become dim lights in a distant future as new musicians making music we will dislke reach new generations.

  341. Tom says:

    Hello Pete,

    I must correct some of your comments, you’re just an other person who don’t know well the King’s career and you give wrong opinions…

    1) “Give them a couple decades and they would have about tripled Elvis’ sales and #1 hits”
    No Pete no, Elvis’s career was not 20 years. That was from 1955 to 1958 (1958–>1960 army), and then movie star from 1960 to 1969. He came back in 1969 as a pop star again until his death 1977. That makes 11 year as a singer. Now to understand how much Elvis was big, just meditate on this. Imagine the Beatles interrupting their musical career in 1965 and for 11 years!!! And then come back again and accomplish a great things (No1 hits, No1 albums, Satellite concert, …). This is possible only with the King. And an other information to a person who thinks that the Beatles did the biggest things in only 8 years, Elvis had 9 No1 hits in only 2 years in the 50’s! No one did it before neither after the King. Just imagine if he did not went to the army, he could have surely 40 No1 hits… But still the King was second to the Beatles in the US with 18 No1 hits (20 for the Beatles) and first in the UK with 21 hits (17 for the Beatles). The King remains the King!

    2) “sometimes, the students become better than the teachers”
    In what Pete? Elvis can never compose like the Beatles and the Beatles can never sing like Elvis. What’s your point? You think that it’s difficult to compose but easy to sing? If you tell me this, then again you know nothing about singing and Elvis’s capacities. I’m a lyric singer and I can understand and admire the King’s unbelievable voice (specially in the 70’s). Saying that singing is nothing is directly insulting giants like Pavarotti or Callas! And apart singing, Elvis new how to perform live, something that the Beatles couldn’t, listening Elvis on live concerts is even better then his studio versions! The guy was magic, and you can see this for example on “That’s the way it is”.

    About album/record sales, I have already explained the counting problems hundred times and still the King is second to the Beatles. I will not do more efforts for you, you are big and enough intelligent to do some research alone ;o)

  342. Nelson says:

    Hello Tom

    The Beatles wrote, sung, and played their songs. Elvis while a great vocalist didn’t write or even play in the majority of his records. The Beatles basically wrote and played in every style. You need to come up with the lyrics, the melodies, the chord progressions and the middle eights. You need to perform it also. To compare Elvis to the Beatles musically is almost a slap in the face to the Beatles.

    Hey Tom sorry but the movie years count for Elvis and he released a lot of music in that time. The Beatles did movies also. You have to remember in countries like the U.S.A they hit it big in 1964 and the broke six years later. So in many countries we are talking about a six year run. It’s sad you want to diminish the Beatles but the facts are between 1964-1970 the Beatles had 34 number one albums and singles WHICH IS MORE THAN ELVIS ENTIRE 23 YEARS OF RECORDED MUSIC. The Beatles released what over 200 songs and Elvis recorded over 800 songs. Give me a break what the Beatles did having 20 number one songs between 1964-1970

  343. Tom says:

    Nelson, don’t tell bulls please, I have seen better Beatles fans who had more logic than you! Theoretically Beatles fans are good musicians and they don’t tell silly things, but there are always exceptions, like you! Telling that Elvis’s movie career was good to him is insulting the music! They have obliged him to sing the silliest songs that the worst musicians could write! When he said no, they made him understand that they had the power to stop his career for good! America is not UK!!!

    Really sorry to tell you this Nelson but you are the poorest Beatles fan I have ever seen. Elvis’s musical career was almost 11 year, and even less if you see his face in 76/77! Elvis had that power/talent to return back to life after 9 years of ridiculous movies! These movies could definitively kill any other artist (even the Beatles!)

    An other ridiculous remark, you are comparing the Beatles to Elvis and trying to find who’s better! Elvis was the best in singing/performing, and the Beatles were the best in composing. Comparing the Beatles as singers is a slap for the King and comparing Elvis as composer is a slap for the Beatles. It’s really simple to understand this! Lennon’s voice was the ugliest on our planet since many centuries! Fortunately Paul was there with an average voice to save their ass!

    And I repeat again, if Elvis didn’t went to the army, he should have almost 40 No1 hits and sell the triple! Every hit recorded by the King was automatically No1 on the charts in 56/57! Nine No1 hits in two years, no one did it before nor after. Simple maths, 9 * 4 = 36 No1 hit in 8 years. If the King didn’t went to the army, mathematically he could have 36 No1 hits (that makes a poor average for the Beatles!).

    I always told to my friends that the perfect music was “The beatles compose for Elvis, and the King sings”. That could be the miracle of the pop music.

    People didn’t even know what a Beatle was in the 80’s in my country in Asia. But everyone knew who the King was! Believe it or not, take makes no difference for me, and your poor idea doesn’t change the reality!

  344. Heather says:

    Why do you talk about these old artists ? They are not even alive !Sorry,but their musics are too old-fashioned . Give us the fresh artists,Let’s talk about fresh legends : Susan Boyle,Myley Cyrus,Taylo Lautner and Justin Bieber !Susan Boyle will blow Beatles,EP and MJ away surely ! She already beat a Beatles’s record.Long live to the new legends !!!!

  345. Tom says:

    Justin what ? !!

  346. ben says:

    tom

    “And I repeat again, if Elvis didn’t went to the army, he should have almost 40 No1 hits and sell the triple! Every hit recorded by the King was automatically No1 on the charts in 56/57! Nine No1 hits in two years, no one did it before nor after. Simple maths, 9 * 4 = 36 No1 hit in 8 years”

    History knows no If’s Elvis went in the army and that’s the end of it. anyway sales were never that big in the 50’s. my main problem with Elvis is he never wrote his own songs, if it wasn’t Elvis singing them songs it would have just been somebody else, and you treat Elvis as if he was the greatest singer ever to walk the earth, yeah he was a much better singer than any of the beatles but is he really much better than the likes of Freddie Mercury ect? just my opinion,but I treat songwriting as a far bigger talent than singing.

  347. Tom says:

    “Ben”, still you are comparing composers to singers! You can’t compare Verdi to Pavarotti! You can’t say Pavarotti is nothing because he never wrote his songs! At the same time you can’t say Verdi is nothing because he can’t sing what he writes! It’s really ridiculous as remark!

    Now comparing Elvis to Freddie Mercury, just take a difficult song of Freddie Mercury and a difficult song from Elvis (ex: I’ll never fall in love again) and go ask what a professional classical professor thinks!

    The world’s top tenor and opera star, Placido Domingo said about Elvis:
    “He was the one voice I wish to have had, of all those emanating from singers in the popular music field”

    Elvis had unbelievable capacities in singing, I’m a lyric singer and I admire his huge talent.

  348. LIVEACTION 777 says:

    Thank you SpeedDemon, for your accurate information. I totally agree with you. It seems that some people on this site has a personal vendetta against Michael Jackson. It seems many here does not want to answer KB50MJ’ earlier post question. The statement that he made was true. Elvis Presley, and the Beatles doesn’t seem to have many BLACK FANS. Now I know that Black people don’t matter to many of you racists here, but that is the real reason you don’t want to call MJ number one. Also if you add the continent of Africa (where MJ was crowned a King in one of the countries) and some South American countries into this equation, Michael Jackson will no doubt take title away from the competition. Well he almost beat them already just by selling 7 solo albums!

  349. FredAistair says:

    Tom – your case is wonderfully put.

    Your point abouts sales Comparisons is spot on. It’s clear that so much of Elvis’s sales are unreported and certified.

    The point on the Hollywood interuption is a point so may forget. Allbeit he was the highset paid actor in the world for several years.

    And that voice, totally agree, magic, feeling, range, power, subtlety, performance. Unmatched. There was and is simply no singer in popular music who mastered blues, country, rock, gospel, ballads and others so naturally.

    As for the Beatles, I don’t like saying anything against them, but they could not have lasted creatively much longer than they did. Breaking up was in fact the best career move they made.

  350. Tom says:

    “LIVEACTION 777”, as I said before, don’t tell bulls when you’re not leaving outside US or Europe. I’m from middle east (even if my roots are from Europe) and people up there used to laugh on your clown MJ! Your King was famous because he was the king of the clowns! I saw with my own eyes thousands of fans buying Elvis’s records, tee shirts, posters, sun glasses, … in the 80’s (10 years after his death!). 1987 used to be your freak idol’s prime period, but unfortunately (for him), Elvis was still KING! Arabic people adore Elvis, as all other races on our planet (Asians, Latinos, …). Only black Americans are unhappy because Elvis kicked their ass by eclipsing all the other black (and white) artists. But no problem with that because the black artists admitted in the 50’s that Elvis was the best (Jackie Wilson said : “A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis”), but the black population could not accept that idea, and still don’t accept it in the year of 2011!

    Yes “FredAistair”, Elvis’s voice is phenomenon which must be debated in musical schools, his voice/range changed many times in his career (that was happened with the great Caruso). In the 50’s his voice was still fresh with a baritone range/color, but as he was very young his voice was dynamic and could also be punchy and lyric. In the 60’s he was a wonderful baritone. At the end of the 60’s, his voice changed and became very rock with a great saturation (NBC period). From 1972 to 1975, his voice reached the perfection by being an extraordinary lyric tenor with a magnificent range (low and high, he could hit a B on live concerts!). And finally, from 1975 to 1977, Elvis became a spinto tenor with the same range but much more powerful voice, so powerful that he could even not sing correctly rock n Roll music in these last years!
    If Elvis lived 3 or 4 more years, I’m convinced that he would finish as a dramatic tenor.

  351. ben says:

    FredAistair

    “As for the Beatles, I don’t like saying anything against them, but they could not have lasted creatively much longer than they did. Breaking up was in fact the best career move they made”

    really? so why did Paul and John both have very successful solo career’s after the beatles broke up?

  352. LIVEACTION 777 says:

    TOM, I GUESS I’M SUPPOSE TO TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT. YOU SEE TOM ANYONE CAN BE A RACIST, INCLUDING YOU. I KNOW WHEN SOMEONE IS BIASED. NOW LET ME TELL YOU SOMTHING TOM, WHAT A PERSON SEES WITH THIER ACTUALL EYES IS NOT A LIE. EVEN IF YOU GO ON YOUTUBE, YOU WILL SEE LOTS OF VIDEOS ON THERE WHERE THERE WERE 1000’S OF PEOPLE LITERALLY CHASING, SCREAMING, AND MOBBING MJ, IN EVERY COUNTRY HE WENT INTO, INCLUDING GROWN MEN. NOW I WAS NOT BORN YESTERDAY TOM, SO DON’T INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE. PEOPLE TREATED MJ LIKE HE WAS A GOD OR ADMIRED HIM WHERE EVER HE WENT, INCLUDING KINGS, QUEENS, PRESIDENTS, ELITES AND THE COMMON MAN. THAT’S WHY HE HAD TO WEAR A DISGUISE WHERE EVER HE WENT. NOW I NEVER SAW ELVIS PRESLEY HONERED BY ANY OF THE U.S. PRESIDENTS DID WE? MJ RECEIVED REACTIONS FROM PEOPLE THAT NO ONE ELSE RECIEVED, INCLUDING ELVIS. LOOK ALL THE TRIBUTES TO HIM AFTER HIS DEATH, AROUND THE WHOLE WORLD. THAT’S WHY I THINK PEOPLE LIKE YOU TOM, ARE JEALOUS OF HIM.

  353. FredAistair says:

    Ben – with due respect – there is very little in terms of real classic from the individual Beatles post split.
    A few songs here and there.
    And what does some individual success have to do with a Group who were in their own words at the point of self destruct at the time. Bickering and nasty infighting.
    The marriage had come to an end. It was great whilst it lasted. Live with it.

  354. FredAistair says:

    Live Action – that’s hog wash.

    The only real mania there was, was Elvis and Beatle Mania.

    The 30 people chasing MJ in a car or outside his hotel which I have personally witnessed do not compare.

    As for your other comments, many Kings and Princess have shaken hands with Gadafi, Sadaam, Hitler and Stalin. Whoppee so what?
    However credit to MJ for showing some taste. He is one of the many Celebrities who have visited Graceland to pay hommage to the King.

  355. Ethan says:

    MJ is greater than MJ everywhere worldwide .That’s a fact you can’t change.Just oming here and repeat ” Elvis is the king,elvis is the king ” will change nothing on this.You waste your time.
    Michael Jackson is popular next to every generations ,unlike Elvis.
    Michael is more talentuous ( writing-composing-arranging-producing-directing skills 0,is a better artistical creator ,a better dancer,a better singer,has a better voice,is a greater philantropist,has a bigger musical legacy,is more influential, has much more charisma,etc,etc…. There is no place on earth where people don’t know mj,UNLIKE ep.MICHAEL IS GREATER ACCORDING TO FACTS.Michael even beat EP on global sales : There is the list of the 10 best sellers worldwide :
    # Name Albums Worldwide Sales Nationality Years Active Genre Source

    1 The Beatles 40+ 400,000,000 UK 60s (1962-1970) Rock/Pop Guinness/EMI
    See also: Discussion #36

    2. Michael Jackson 14 350,000,000 US 70s-00s (1979-) Pop/R&B MJ Stats

    3 Elvis Presley 150+ 300,000,000 US 50s-70s (1956-1977) Country/Rock Elvis.com
    See also: Discussion #1

    4. Madonna 16 275,000,000 US 80s-00s (1984-) Pop WBR 2005
    Discography [1]

    5. Nana Mouskouri 450 250,000,000 Greece 60s-00s (1959-) Pop [2]
    [3]

    6. Cliff Richard 60+ 250,000,000 UK 50s-00s (1959-1969,1977-1979,1986-1999) Rock/Pop [4]

    7.The Rolling Stones 54 ~250,000,000 UK 60s-00s (1964-1981) Rock 60.5 million in the US [5]

    8. Mariah Carey 14 230,000,000 US 90s-00s (1990-) Pop/R&B Albums Discography

    9. Elton John 43 ~220,000,000 UK 70s-00s (1972-1976,1989-1991,1997-) Pop [6]

    10.Celine Dion 21 220,000,000 Canada 80s-00s (1990-) Pop Music/Pop Discography See also: Discussion #1

    Michael is clearly thhe winner,and the best selling artist of all times.

  356. Tom says:

    “LIVEACTION 777”, no comment for you, you are living in Disneyland and that’s great for you :o) All things you have sited above were already done by the King. The only difference is that Elvis was the first to do it in a very difficult context. White medias hated him because girls were getting wet and blacks hated him (not the artists!) because they were jealous. Elvis could not even hear what he was singing because of the audience. There’s a video on YouTube showing a mother controlling her daughter because she was getting mad, at the end of the song, the mother was screaming more than her daughter! This was the effect made by the King looooong before your clown! Sad that 99,9% of his concerts were not filmed in the 50’s, that could help you to understand that your clown did nothing new.

    Now an other comic “Ethan”! I will not discuss the artistic side of the debate because you’re telling that MJ was better singer, only this remark is enough to me to understand that you’re not a musician, and if you were a musician you could also understand that MJ could not compose. I looked little bit to “this is it” and I really laughed on the musical language of the king of pop :o) Even Elvis who was not a big musician used to have a musical language with his band (ex: can you try it on Db please, I’ll try a chord G#7, etc, etc, …), I have never saw these basic words from MJ who used to compose songs!!!
    Now for the sales, you know there’s only one official organisation who counts the album sales (and only album!), this organisation is RIAA. Even if Elvis’s stuff is not totally captured by RIAA, even if the King’s singles which were his primary sales in the 50’s were not counted by RIAA, still he remains faaaaaaaaaaar ahead the clown. This is official numbers from an official organisation, but if you want to be happy, then go on internet and you can find lot of sites which are placing the clown at first position with 1 billion sales :o)

  357. robby says:

    Ethan, where did you get such a dumb list? The RIAA is the official list and MJ is barely in the top 10

  358. FredAistair says:

    Eathn’s list has no validity what so ever. The RIAA is the only organisation of any standing in respect of certification. And as you say has MJ well down the list.
    The certification list excludes singles.

    In respect of Elvis only a fraction of his catalogue has been subject to certification for a multitued of reasons.

    Never the less it is quite correct to say that the Beatles have the most certified sales. And full credit to them. But I would distinguish that from actual overall sales.

  359. LIVEACTION 777 says:

    Tom, YOUR IGNORANCE NEVER SEEMS TO AMAZE ME. LIKE I SAID I GUESS YOU THINK I SHOULD BELIEVE AN IGNORANT, STUPID, RACIST LIKE YOU. YOU CALL MICHAEL JACKSON, THE KING OF POP, A CLOWN, YOU AND YOUR ELVIS IS THE KING OF CLOWNS. NOBODY BLACK LIKES HIM, AND IT’S FOR A GOOD REASON. IT’S BECAUSE HE SUCKS TO HIGH HEAVEN OR SHOULD I SAY DEEP HELL. THEY ARE NOT JEALOUS OF HIM AS YOU WOULD LIKE TO FANTASIZE THEM BEING. YOU ARE THE ONE WHO JEALOUS HERE. I’VE SEEN ELVIS IN CONCERTS, AND YEAH I’VE SEEN SOME GIRLS AND WOMEN SCREAMING OVER HIM, BUT WOMEN AND MEN DON’T JUST SCREAM FOR MICHAEL JACKSON, THEY FAINT COLLASPSE, MOB HIM NO MATTER WHERE HE GOES IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD, CHASE HIM, FOLLOW HIM NO MATTER HE GOES, SOME SPENDNG THE NIGHT OUTSIDE OF HIS HOTEL, SINGING TO HIM, I EVEN HEARD SOME PEOPLE HAD ORGASMS, WHILE HE WAS PERFORMING . YES THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ELVIS PRESLEY AND MICHAEL ALRIGHT, ONE( THE KING OF CLOWNS ELVIS)RECEIVED STAR TREATMENT, WHILE THE OTHER MJ, RECEIVED GODLIKE TREATMENT. SO GO AHEAD BE JEALOUS OF MJ TOM, YOU WON’T CHANGE ANYTHING. NO WONDER MJ, THE TRUE KING’ ALBUM SALES WORLDWIDE ARE FAR AHEAD OF THE KING OF CLOWNS.

  360. Tom says:

    LIVEACTION 777, you will remain a comic, please don’t quit this forum :o)

    You’re right on one point, neither me or you will change the truth… Truth about the sales where the King is far ahead, and truth about black people who were always jealous of the King because he kicked their ass (MJ the clown said : “They call him the King, why not me!”), he was a real comic this guy! They can’t call you the King because you’re not a one :o()

    And for live concerts, the King did all the things you have sites above 30 years before the clown! People used to rip his clothes just to have something from the guy! All this was done in a difficult context in the 50’s that only the King could have made it. In this period artists used to sing in costumes by clicking fingers! I always said, if the King didn’t shake his legs in the 50’s, MJ could not touch his balls in the 80’s :o)

    And personally, I’m not racist because because my favorite male singer is the King and the favorite female singer was Whitney Houston in the 90’s (then she sucked mentally and tried to copy the stupid Maria Carey!). Sad for her because she had a great voice (not like Maria or the king of the playbacks)

  361. ADRIANO says:

    Hi everybody !The truth is that any of these artists is greater than the other .This assumption is just created by their respective fans . MJ and EP are equal as such musical legends.The only difference between them is that MJ beat EP in some things,like EP beat MJ in some other things.Let’s see :
    MJ beat EP in : 1-Writing/composing/arranging/producing/directing skills.

    2-dance skills
    3-philantropy
    4-Charisma
    5-popularity in the thieniest places of the world ( South America,Africa,Middle-Asia ,East-Asia,etc…)
    5-influence
    EP beat MJ in :
    1- Voice
    2-sing skills ( ability to sing different musical genres )
    3-popularity in the western civilisations ( North America,Europe,west-Asia )
    4-physical appeal
    The both are equal in :
    Legacy,artistical creativity,sales ( as some sources claim MJ ‘s sales are greater and some others claim Ep’s are greater ),impact,etc…
    So

  362. LIVEACTION 777 says:

    THANKYOU ANDRIANO, FOR BEING INSIGHTFUL, OPEN MINDED AND RESPECTFUL TOWARDS MICHAEL JACKSON. TOM YOU ARE A BIG JOKE, WHEN IT COMES TO PEOPLES REACTION TOWARDS MJ VS. ELVIS(THE KING OF CLOWNS), MICHAEL IS THE CLEAR WINNER. I THINK HAVING AN ORGASM OR MIKEGASM(WHAT MANY LADIES ARE CALLING IT NOW) JUST AT PRESENCE OF SOMEONE PERFORMING, IS MUCH MORE INTIMATE THAN RIPPING YOUR SHIRT OFF IN THERE PRESENCE. LISA MARIE, ELVIS’ OWN DAUGHTER WAS IN AWE AT AMOUNT OF SECURITY HER AND MJ NEEDED BECAUSE OF PEOPLES’ REACTIONS TOWARDS HER HUSBAND. SO THEREFORE YOU ARE VERY INNCORRECT ABOUT THE KING OF CLOWNS, DOING THESE THINGS BEFORE MICHAEL. AS I SAID BEFORE,PRESIDENTS, KINGS, QUEENS, PRINCESS, PRINCESSES, AND ELITES GAVE GREAT HONOR TO MJ, SOMETHING I’VE NEVER SEEN THEM DO FOR ELVIS “THE KING OF CLOWNS”. I’VE ALSO NEVER SEEN THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS, OF PEOPLE CHASING ELVIS, RUNNING UP ON STAGE AFTER ELVIS, OR EVEN FAINTNG FOR THE KING OF CLOWNS, THE WAY THEY(BOTH MEN AND WOMEN) DID FOR MJ, NO MATTER WHERE HE WENT. THAT’S HOW IN MY OPINION THE “GREATEST” SHOULD BE JUDGED, BY THE PEOPLES REACTION TO THEM. IF THE GREATS WERE JUDGED THIS WAY MJ, WOULD DEFINATELY BE THE WINNER HANDS DOWN. IF YOUR NOT A RACIST I’M GLAD OF THAT, BUT I CAN’T SEE HOW RACISM IS NOT PLAYING A LITTLE BIT OF A ROLE IN YOUR RESENTMENT TOWARDS MJ, BEING NUMBER ONE. YOU EVEN DISRESPECT HIM BY CALLING HIM A CLOWN, SOMETHING YOU DON’T DO TO THE OTHER ARTISTS WE ARE DEBATING. AS FOR AS SALES GO YOU CAN KEEP LIVING IN DENIAL ABOUT THAT TOM,YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE TRUTH. THE IFPI, IS JUST AS RELIABLE AS THE RAA, OR WHATEVER THEIR NAME IS. THE IFPI, IS JUST MORE PRECISE ABOUT INTERNATIONAL SALES, AND THEY HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT MJ, IS AHEAD OF THE KING OF CLOWNS, BY THE TENS OF MILLIONS, WHEN IT COMES TO INTERNATIONAL SALES. SO, YES WE CAN RUN AROUND IN CIRCLES ABOUT SALES, BUT THE FACTS ARE MJ, WHIPED ELVIS’ ASS, WHEN IT COMES TO SALES AROUND THE WORLD, AND HE’S NOT FINISHED SELLING, HE STILL HAS MUCH MORE TO GO, WHEN IT COMES TO MUSIC SELLS. BUT HEY TOM, I’LL ALLOW YOU TO SAY THAT “KING CLOWN”, HAS SOLD MORE THAN MJ, IF IT HELPS YOU GET SLEEP AT NIGHT.

  363. LIVEACTION 777 says:

    THERE IS ONLY ONE THING I DISAGREE WITH ADRIANO ABOUT, I THINK MICHAEL WAS VERY CHARMING AND PHYSICALLY APPEALING, WHEN HE WAS YOUNGER(IN HIS TEENAGE AND YOUNG ADULT YEARS).

  364. popdirt says:

    Locking thread and continuing discussion here.

Comments are closed.

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